# HR Departments **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2013, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379 "2013-02-05T10:39:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/81 "2013-02-06T22:24:24Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > We have a department within HR that deals with this. If I recall correctly they use nationwide standards, local standards, and some other formulas to determine the low, mid, and high ranges of compensation. > > That said, they aren’t the final arbiters of what someone gets paid. As an example, I got a promotion and a 10% pay increase - that was the limit of increases that managers were allowed to give out (based on the execs). That 10% was nice, but I’m underpaid by $8,000 (IIRC). In other words, the ‘low’ end of the range for my position is still 8k more than I make. > > To your point, this was not determined by anyone in HR. Sure. When we make an offer we have some degree of flexibility depending on the candidate and need for the position. But it is within the bounds determined by the market, not what one person thinks is competitive. A company which let individual managers set salaries by themselves would soon find themselves in an awful mess. What happens when a person hired by a generous manager transfers into a more moderate department? He might be an average performer there making a lot more than anyone else. I’ve done salary administration during times of salary compression (when starting salaries are rising faster than raises) and it is no fun. Why create a worse problem than already exists? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2013, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/82 "2013-02-06T22:52:27Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > I think that’s a simplistic and incorrect view. I mean what sort of problem is the employing trying to get “solved”? The HR department is there to protect the employer from lawsuits. It is not there to help employees with problems. > [@Voyager](#): > > Is archiving bad reviews somehow different from archiving good reviews, which might help an employee defend herself from an obnoxious manager before it gets to you? I don’t ever see the stuff that gets resolved correctly and completely before it gets to me. That is, you may correctly assume that my sampling method is utterly flawed for those instances where I don’t see it. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/83 "2013-02-07T00:54:21Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The HR department is there to protect the employer from lawsuits. It is not there to help employees with problems. You may be subject to something of a selection bias here. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/84 "2013-02-07T03:05:13Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You may be subject to something of a selection bias here. Is that you Captain Obvious? ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/85 "2013-02-07T04:37:45Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I work for large companies, and all their HR departments have been slashed in half and half again already. And I hope you are not one of the people who complain when no one responds to a resume you’ve submitted. And when they get slashed, then they just have scripts to run through all the resume submissions, and if you’re complaining that a HR person doesn’t know that “SQL” is “Structured Query Language,” I can assure you that the script will be worse. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/86 "2013-02-07T04:52:14Z")
> [@Shakes](#): > > Sorry, can’t say that I agree. My HR dept is the most awesome thing since Jesus Christ. No scratch that: There’s my HR dept and _then_ comes Jesus Christ. > > And the fact that I’m posting this from work has absolutely zero influence over what Im just posted. > > I would gush more about my HR dept but I have to get back to work > . Your sarcasm is noted, citizen. We are watching you, you know. Since you’re having so much fun making jokes at work, you won’t miss the vacation days you no longer have. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/87 "2013-02-07T05:12:50Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I’ve heard lots of complaints about HR blocking candidates from getting to hiring managers, but since in my field HR has no clue about what makes a good candidate, I’ve never had that problem. You may not have had that problem, but the ignorance of the HR department regarding the qualities of a good candidate have nothing to do with it. HR departments keeping applicants from ever being interviewed without having the faintest notion regarding the requirements of a position are found all across the country in every industry. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/88 "2013-02-07T06:06:16Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You may not have had that problem, but the ignorance of the HR department regarding the qualities of a good candidate have nothing to do with it. HR departments keeping applicants from ever being interviewed without having the faintest notion regarding the requirements of a position are found all across the country in every industry. My friend the headhunter complains all the time about HR getting between a candidate and a hiring manager. But it depends on where the balance of power is. I’ve been in the computer design industry for over 30 years, and know people in companies all over Silicon Valley, and I’ve never heard even one person complain about this - either when looking for jobs or trying to hire. [QUOTE=dzeiger] And when they get slashed, then they just have scripts to run through all the resume submissions, and if you’re complaining that a HR person doesn’t know that “SQL” is “Structured Query Language,” I can assure you that the script will be worse. [/QUOTE] I suspect even if a hiring manager looked over the filter, he’d see SQL on it and be satisfied. Like I said, I worked with HR on refining a script, and it worked great. If anyone in a technical field lets HR (or PR for that matter) go off without monitoring, bad things will happen. BTW I’ve been dealing with database more than I want to lately, and I’ve never heard anyone use anything but SQL. I don’t think the Oracle documentation does, except at the beginning, maybe. I certainly agree that there are things you can get mad at HR about (If I told you my current peeves I’d be in trouble) but this ain’t one. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/89 "2013-02-07T09:56:57Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > When the manager talked to them, the HR person kept saying “the student had no squeel”. Took him a while to figure out they meant “SQL” Was he playing a banjo at the time? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/90 "2013-02-07T13:15:03Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Like I said, I worked with HR on refining a script, and it worked great. If anyone in a technical field lets HR (or PR for that matter) go off without monitoring, bad things will happen. > BTW I’ve been dealing with database more than I want to lately, and I’ve never heard anyone use anything but SQL. I don’t think the Oracle documentation does, except at the beginning, maybe. I certainly agree that there are things you can get mad at HR about (If I told you my current peeves I’d be in trouble) but this ain’t one. I’m in HR and all I deal with is databases. I had to learn SQL as part of my job. Are there bad people in HR? Sure. Are there poorly run HR departments? Of course. That said, we have metrix to track how our hiring process is going. Are we hiring the right candidates? Are our managers seeing the right people? Up until recently, the managers would actually go through the hundreds of resumes to select who they viewed. We’ve now outsourced our recruiting. The manager for the position has to fill out a req to tell the recruiters what skills the candidate should have. As you suggest, it’s not as though a manager says ‘we need some people’ and the HR recruiter simply makes up stuff and puts it out on the recruiting websites. The hiring manager is generally involved and, if not, that says something about how the company is run, not necessarily the HR department. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/91 "2013-02-07T19:54:38Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Seriously, I know the policy in at least some banks is that everyone must take at least a week of vacation in one chunk, because a sign of embezzlement is never letting anyone else see your stuff. It’s not a policy in some banks, it’s US federal law for all banks. And it’s two weeks, not one. At least that’s what it was 20 years ago. In a way, it’s awesome, because you know you’re getting that vacation no matter what. In another way, it sucks, because during your vacation you’re being audited, and you have no idea if you’ll have a job when you return. ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/92 "2013-02-07T21:46:52Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > It’s not a policy in some banks, it’s US federal law for all banks. And it’s two weeks, not one. . . . Technically, it looks more like an [FDIC recommendation](http://www.fdic.gov/news/news/financial/1995/fil9552.html) than actual Federal law–but I assume that it’s unlikely that any banks are not going to be following the recommendation. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/93 "2013-02-07T22:19:29Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > The HR department is there to protect the employer from lawsuits. It is not there to help employees with problems. Yes, I understood you the first time. Of course protecting the company from employee related lawsuits is part of HR’s job. As RickJay pointed out, as a lawyer that is most likely your primary interaction with them. But really that is only part of the larger role of HR which is to ensure employees are acting in a manner that is consistent with the interests of the company. Why wouldn’t everyone hate HR? The whole point of HR is to serve as a beurocratic mechanism of institutional control for the company. ---
**Author:** ![EMCEE\_98](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5ac83/32.png) [@EMCEE\_98](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EMCEE_98)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2013, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/94 "2013-02-07T22:34:54Z")
With the physically and emotionally hideous humans I’ve run into in HR departments, they should rename them SHR: Subhuman Resources. Ya know, for Morlocks. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/95 "2013-02-08T00:57:58Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > It’s not a policy in some banks, it’s US federal law for all banks. And it’s two weeks, not one. At least that’s what it was 20 years ago. > > In a way, it’s awesome, because you know you’re getting that vacation no matter what. In another way, it sucks, because during your vacation you’re being audited, and you have no idea if you’ll have a job when you return. Interesting! Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/96 "2013-02-08T01:03:32Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > That said, we have metrix to track how our hiring process is going. Are we hiring the right candidates? Are our managers seeing the right people? Up until recently, the managers would actually go through the hundreds of resumes to select who they viewed. We’ve now outsourced our recruiting. The manager for the position has to fill out a req to tell the recruiters what skills the candidate should have. > > As you suggest, it’s not as though a manager says ‘we need some people’ and the HR recruiter simply makes up stuff and puts it out on the recruiting websites. The hiring manager is generally involved and, if not, that says something about how the company is run, not necessarily the HR department. I can assure you that we in the trenches are damn glad we don’t have to do the record keeping that HR does. It’s disruptive, not much fun, and we’d never get around to it. And then the company would get its ass sued off by the government. I was at one place where the manager kept the signed performance reviews for all employees. This was fine until one guy went a bit nuts and threw away all his records. We found this out when we decided to fire someone and didn’t have the negative review as backup. Not a lot of fun. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/97 "2013-02-08T02:40:13Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > My friend the headhunter complains all the time about HR getting between a candidate and a hiring manager. But it depends on where the balance of power is. I’ve been in the computer design industry for over 30 years, and know people in companies all over Silicon Valley, and I’ve never heard even one person complain about this - either when looking for jobs or trying to hire. Silicon Valley might not have any companies old enough for HR to have grabbed that much power. Among old line manufacturing, financial (and insurance), and medical institutions, I know several IT managers who have complained about being denied access by HR to good candidates. I would never claim that it is universal, but it does happen. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/98 "2013-02-08T03:32:36Z")
I am shocked to hear that not all HR departments are the same. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/99 "2013-02-08T03:51:52Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > It’s not a policy in some banks, it’s US federal law for all banks. And it’s two weeks, not one. At least that’s what it was 20 years ago. > > In a way, it’s awesome, because you know you’re getting that vacation no matter what. In another way, it sucks, because during your vacation you’re being audited, and you have no idea if you’ll have a job when you return. It’s not everyone in every bank, though - just people at a certain level with certain responsibilities. I used to work in the legal department of one of the biggest, and we had no such rule applicable to everyone. Of course, I didn’t manage anyone and had no control over any funds other than my own personal checking account, either. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2013, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379/100 "2013-02-08T05:00:07Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > > [@tdn](#): > > > > It’s not a policy in some banks, it’s US federal law for all banks. And it’s two weeks, not one. At least that’s what it was 20 years ago. > > It’s not everyone in every bank, though - just people at a certain level with certain responsibilities. I used to work in the legal department of one of the biggest, and we had no such rule applicable to everyone. Of course, I didn’t manage anyone and had no control over any funds other than my own personal checking account, either. I wonder if that recommendation applies to Savings & Loans. I wonder this because back in 1989, I worked for an S&L that got taken over by the RTC. One of the things that came out early on was that the woman who ran the travel department had been embezzling for some time, to the tune of a couple million dollars. (I worked in the brand-new HQ that they’d moved into about, oh, maybe 6 months before the RTC walked in and the feds walked the president out. Seriously.) The only reason they found out was because she had to be hospitalized for a short time for an operation, and she kept trying to get them to let her do her work from the hospital room. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hr-departments/649379.md?page=6)