# HRC as an independent **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 3, 2008, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770 "2008-04-03T06:24:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/1 "2008-04-03T06:24:22Z")
Now before you go off and say, “She’ll never split the vote.” or “She wouldn’t dig her own grave in the Democratic Party.” or any other common sense answer, remember these are the Clintons - you know Slick Willie the Candidate who four years before was ridiculed for his absurbly long keynote speech. He was also the president that lied to us then after his impeachment acquittal told us he lied to our face and now has people talking about the mean ol’ Republicans. This is a guy that has more teflon than John Gotti and honestly thinks he’s invincible and never does anything wrong. Ass uming that HRC starts listening to her husband rather than the (Democratic) voters and goes independent, what are her chances in the general? Can she get enough electoral votes (mostly New York and California) to throw it into the HOR? Could she even win (NY + CA + 184)? Would it guaranty McCain the election? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/2 "2008-04-03T06:39:34Z")
Better still, why not a Clinton-Lieberman ticket! No, wait, Nadir and Carrot Top! Be a hell of a show,wouldn’t it? But the price for such interesting times tends to be high, in this case, John McCain as CinC. The very thought makes laxatives superflous. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/3 "2008-04-03T06:41:12Z")
Clinton-Paul, the wave of the future. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 10:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/4 "2008-04-03T10:47:54Z")
She can barely afford things as it is: where is she going to get money for a presidential run? ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 11:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/5 "2008-04-03T11:02:27Z")
[QUOTE=Saint Cad] Now before you go off and say, “She’ll never split the vote.” or “She wouldn’t dig her own grave in the Democratic Party.” or any other common sense answer, remember these are the Clintons - you know Slick Willie the Candidate who four years before was ridiculed for his absurbly long keynote speech. He was also the president that lied to us then after his impeachment acquittal told us he lied to our face and now has people talking about the mean ol’ Republicans. This is a guy that has more teflon than John Gotti and honestly thinks he’s invincible and never does anything wrong. Ass [/QUOTE] And he invaded Iraq after lying to the US, the UN, all his allies; leading to the deaths of thousands of Americans…oh, no that was someone else. :smack: (I don’t see why you get so upset over Clinton.) ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/6 "2008-04-03T13:27:08Z")
She could call her new party the [Progressive Party](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Party_%28United_States%2C_1912%29) (a.k.a. the “Bull Moose Party”). 🙂 Whatever she calls it, she’d end up splitting the vote with Obama, and hand the election to McCain. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/7 "2008-04-03T13:28:37Z")
Since Hillary has zero appeal to Republicans, it’s difficult to imagine how she could be any more successful as an independent candidate. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/8 "2008-04-03T13:33:36Z")
It will never happen. She will be cheering for McCain to beat Obama, setting her up for a run in 2012. If she did, I don’t see her carrying a single state. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/9 "2008-04-03T13:40:12Z")
When the OP starts off with a directive to ignore common sense… I know she’s bound and determined to keep going even though it appears she can’t possibly win in the primaries. But she won’t do this. Basic logic says that if two Democrats and one Republican run, the Democrats are going to split the vote. She tends to lose in open primaries, indicating that Republicans like Obama better than they like her. What voters would she wrest away from Obama and McCain, or how would her big blocs of support outnumber theirs? ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/10 "2008-04-03T13:58:44Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] It will never happen. She will be cheering for McCain to beat Obama, setting her up for a run in 2012. If she did, I don’t see her carrying a single state. [/QUOTE] A spoiler candidate would pretty much ensure a McCain win. Of course, it’d utterly destroy her relationship with the Democrats in the future, so probably not. ---
**Author:** ![Stuffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@Stuffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stuffy)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/11 "2008-04-03T14:32:38Z")
Wouldn’t it be pretty much impossible at this point anyway. I mean aren’t there some barriers just getting on the ballot in all 50 states that would take more time and infrastructure than is availble. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/12 "2008-04-03T14:45:10Z")
Could she even get on the ballot in any state at this point? You need a certain amount of signatures… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/13 "2008-04-03T14:45:17Z")
My theory is that the Clintonistas will fall back into the mountains and carry on the struggle through guerilla warfare. Seriously, despite what the OP would believe (and I’m guessing he was one of the people who believed eight years ago that Bill Clinton was going to declare martial law in order to stay in office) the Clintons are part of the system. They’ve lost elections before. Hillary will accept defeat and stay in the Senate and start making plans for a future run. The last thing she’s going to do is abandon her base in the Democratic party organization. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/14 "2008-04-03T14:50:25Z")
No way, for reasons stated by other posters. But don’t be surprised if there are some attempts to undermine Obama’s campaign so that she has a shot at the WH in '12. I certainly don’t see her or Bill stumping for Obama in the fall. ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/15 "2008-04-03T14:56:10Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] No way, for reasons stated by other posters. But don’t be surprised if there are some attempts to undermine Obama’s campaign so that she has a shot at the WH in '12. I certainly don’t see her or Bill stumping for Obama in the fall. [/QUOTE] I would think that even the hint that she tried to sabotage Obama’s campaign would destroy any shot at 2012. Many Dems would never forgive her for that. I think she’ll have to support him, and still hope for him to lose. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/16 "2008-04-03T15:05:53Z")
In a 3-way contest with Obama, Clinton and McCain, I don’t think Clinton could pick up a single state. Obama would just win in the rock-solid Democrat states, and McCain would romp home. She would never be forgiven by many Democrats, and Bill would drop in reputation too, because he would (naturally) be seen as supporting Hillary in this. She can only win if she gets the Democrat nomination, and she knows this. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/17 "2008-04-03T15:29:05Z")
[QUOTE=Jackknifed Juggernaut] I would think that even the hint that she tried to sabotage Obama’s campaign would destroy any shot at 2012. Many Dems would never forgive her for that. I think she’ll have to support him, and still hope for him to lose. [/QUOTE] Sorry I was unclear about that. I don’t expect her to stump for him after he’s selected (assuming he is), but there is plenty of time between now and then to undermine his campaign, and some have suggested that is why she’s still staying in the race. This is something [Maureen Dowd suggested in a recent editorial.](http://www.sacbee.com/110/story/814646.html) ---
**Author:** ![Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9de053/32.png) [@Jackknifed\_Juggernaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackknifed_Juggernaut)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/18 "2008-04-03T15:53:17Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] This is something [Maureen Dowd suggested in a recent editorial.](http://www.sacbee.com/110/story/814646.html) [/QUOTE] Good points. I was amused by the reference to Tonya Harding in the editorial. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/19 "2008-04-03T15:56:24Z")
[QUOTE=Jackknifed Juggernaut] Good points. I was amused by the reference to Tonya Harding in the editorial. [/QUOTE] And that would make Bill Clinton… Jeff Gillooly? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2008, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770/20 "2008-04-03T15:59:03Z")
NFW is HRC going to run as an independent. I’d be more concerned Obama would – he’s the one with a support base independent of the party. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-as-an-independent/443770.md?page=2)