# HRC member of a secretive RW Christian cult "The Family"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 20, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100 "2008-03-20T17:56:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/1 "2008-03-20T17:56:33Z")
AKA [_The Fellowship._](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_%28Christian_political_organization%29) So [_Mother Jones_](http://www.motherjones.com/news/feature/2007/09/hillarys-prayer.html) reports: > [@](#): > > Through all of her years in Washington, Clinton has been an active participant in conservative Bible study and prayer circles that are part of a secretive Capitol Hill group known as the Fellowship. Her collaborations with right-wingers such as Senator Sam Brownback (R-Kan.) and former Senator Rick Santorum (R-Pa.) grow in part from that connection. “A lot of evangelicals would see that as just cynical exploitation,” says the Reverend Rob Schenck, a former leader of the militant anti-abortion group Operation Rescue who now ministers to decision makers in Washington. “I don’t…there is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer.” > > Clinton’s faith is grounded in the Methodist beliefs she grew up with in Park Ridge, Illinois, a conservative Chicago suburb where she was active in her church’s altar guild, Sunday school, and youth group. It was there, in 1961, that she met the Reverend Don Jones, a 30-year-old youth pastor; Jones, a friend of Clinton’s to this day, told us he knows “more about Hillary Clinton’s faith than anybody outside her family.” > > Because Jones introduced Clinton and her teenage peers to the civil rights movement and modern poetry and art, Clinton biographers often cast him as a proto-'60s liberal who sowed seeds of radicalism throughout Park Ridge. Jones, though, describes his theology as neoorthodox, guided by the belief that social change should come about slowly and without radical action. It emerged, he says, as a third way, a reaction against both separatist fundamentalism and the New Deal’s labor-based liberalism. So far, so innocuous – but further down it gets effin’ **scary.** > [@](#): > > The Fellowship’s long-term goal is “a leadership led by God—leaders of all levels of society who direct projects as they are led by the spirit.” According to the Fellowship’s archives, the spirit has in the past led its members in Congress to increase U.S. support for the Duvalier regime in Haiti and the Park dictatorship in South Korea. The Fellowship’s God-led men have also included General Suharto of Indonesia; Honduran general and death squad organizer Gustavo Alvarez Martinez; a Deutsche Bank official disgraced by financial ties to Hitler; and dictator Siad Barre of Somalia, plus a list of other generals and dictators. Clinton, says Schenck, has become a regular visitor to Coe’s Arlington, Virginia, headquarters, a former convent where Coe provides members of Congress with sex-segregated housing and spiritual guidance. > > Coe counsels that Fellowship cells shouldn’t engage in direct evangelical activism, but rather allow Christian causes to benefit from the bonds that develop within the cells. Former Nixon counsel Chuck Colson provides a rare illustration of the process in his 1976 Watergate memoir, Born Again. Facing prosecution in 1973, Colson allowed Coe to ensconce him in a Fellowship cell with a Nixon foe, Senator Harold Hughes. Hughes became the Nixon hatchet man’s staunchest defender, voting in favor of a possible pardon for Colson and later supporting Colson as he built Prison Fellowship, now one of the most powerful organizations of the Christian right. > > That’s how it works: The Fellowship isn’t out to turn liberals into conservatives; rather, it convinces politicians they can transcend left and right with an ecumenical faith that rises above politics. Only the faith is always evangelical, and the politics always move rightward. > > This is in line with the Christian right’s long-term strategy. Francis Schaeffer, late guru of the movement, coined the term “cobelligerency” to describe the alliances evangelicals must forge with conservative Catholics. Colson, his most influential disciple, has refined the concept of cobelligerency to deal with less-than-pure politicians. In this application, conservatives sit pretty and wait for liberals looking for common ground to come to them. Clinton, Colson told us, “has a lot of history” to overcome, but he sees her making the right moves. [_The Nation_](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080331/ehrenreich) adds: > [@](#): > > Sean Hannity has called Obama’s church a “cult,” but that term applies far more aptly to Clinton’s “Family,” which is organized into “cells”–their term–and operates sex-segregated group homes for young people in northern Virginia. In 2002, Sharlet joined The Family’s home for young men, forswearing sex, drugs and alcohol, and participating in endless discussions of Jesus and power. He wasn’t undercover; he used his own name and admitted to being a writer. But he wasn’t completely out of danger either. When he went outdoors one night to make a cell phone call, he was followed. He still gets calls from Family associates asking him to meet them in diners–alone. Should we be worried about this? I know I am. What is encouraging to Chuck Colson should, almost by definition, be troubling to the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/2 "2008-03-20T18:17:15Z")
Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer. Any politician in the House or Senate who hopes to get cooperation from across the aisle must socially rub elbows with the bastards. Going to church with wackos doesn’t make you one, any more than sleeping in the garage makes you a Buick. In short, I am not as scared of this stuff as you are. To get close to some pols, you play golf with them. For others, you go to church with them. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/3 "2008-03-20T20:55:39Z")
Just when I think we’re done playing gotcha politics, we go right back to playing “Who’s church is worst.” Hillary Clinton’s schedules are released showing some major holes in her experience claims and you want to focus on the church group that she was pandering to? Or to answer the op, no. There are a lot more important things to worry about than the church going habits of our candidates. If Hillary starts echoing Huckabee, then it’s time to worry. ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/4 "2008-03-20T21:00:22Z")
“There is a real good that is infected in people when they are around Jesus talk, and open Bibles, and prayer.” _Infected_? Strange choice of words for a pastor. Anyway… How much do I worry about this? Oh, about zero. So she attends some prayer meetings at the Capitol. That doesn’t make her a member of this Fellowship, whatever it is. BFD, IOW, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/5 "2008-03-20T21:03:34Z")
Yeah. I don’t want to play gothca last. Besides, The Family is majority white and hasn’t been caught saying anything unpatriotic, has it? Then no way it’ll catch on like Wright has. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/6 "2008-03-20T21:52:26Z")
Hillary’s a Methodist, W’s a Methodist! Methodists were founded by John Wesley. Wesleyans are generally fundamentalists! Fundamentalists want to start nuclear war to bring Jesus back! Hillary wants to start nuclear war to bring Jesus back. Film at Eleven. This crap is just like the stuff from my John Birch days when CFR and Trilateral membership was enough to label someone as being a devotee of Adam Weishaupt. I see some liberals now also freaking out about the “sinister” Council on National Policy! The great thing is that it’s met by the ultra-fundy fringe who see the CNP as a branch of the CFR. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/7 "2008-03-20T22:10:34Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] I see some liberals now also freaking out about the “sinister” Council on National Policy! The great thing is that it’s met by the ultra-fundy fringe who see the CNP as a branch of the CFR. [/QUOTE] Said not entirely unreasonable freakoutery is largely based on the [CNP’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_for_National_Policy) secrecy. If it’s elite and it’s secret, it can’t be good. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/8 "2008-03-21T01:14:38Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] Hillary’s a Methodist, W’s a Methodist! Methodists were founded by John Wesley. Wesleyans are generally fundamentalists!.. [/QUOTE] Raised Methodist. They are a lot like Garrison Keillor’s take on Lutherans, but less colorful. Their divine mission seemed to make Christianity as boring as humanly possible. Jesus yawned. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/9 "2008-03-21T01:16:14Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Said not entirely unreasonable freakoutery is largely based on the [CNP’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_for_National_Policy) secrecy. If it’s elite and it’s secret, it can’t be good. [/QUOTE] So you are also understandably alarmed by the influence of the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission and the Bildeberg Conferences? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/10 "2008-03-21T01:28:24Z")
I’m not particularly concerned. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/11 "2008-03-21T01:30:07Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] So you are also understandably alarmed by the influence of the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission and the Bildeberg Conferences? [/QUOTE] There are people with power, and they get together to talk about how to wield that power. Gahh! The world is so scary! ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/12 "2008-03-21T02:31:00Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Raised Methodist. They are a lot like Garrison Keillor’s take on Lutherans, but less colorful. Their divine mission seemed to make Christianity as boring as humanly possible. Jesus yawned. [/QUOTE] Actually, and I base this on having spent too much time in Park Ridge, which can’t be described as “conservative” as much as “full of social climbers,” especially when HRC lived there, and my decades around Suburban-Chicago Methodists (full disclosure: I married the first Methodist I ever met), their divine mission is really to become Episcopalians. Wesley would turn in his grave. (However, my Methodist became a Keilloresque Lutheran.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/13 "2008-03-21T12:57:39Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] Actually, and I base this on having spent too much time in Park Ridge, which can’t be described as “conservative” as much as “full of social climbers,” especially when HRC lived there, and my decades around Suburban-Chicago Methodists (full disclosure: I married the first Methodist I ever met), their divine mission is really to become Episcopalians. Wesley would turn in his grave. (However, my Methodist became a Keilloresque Lutheran.) [/QUOTE] An Episcopalian is a Presbyterian with a trust fund; a Presbyterian is a Methodist with a college education; and a Methodist is a Baptist with shoes. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/14 "2008-03-21T13:18:13Z")
BrainGlutton writes: \> An Episcopalian is a Presbyterian with a trust fund; a Presbyterian is a \> Methodist with a college education; and a Methodist is a Baptist with shoes. And this is at least a sixty-year old joke that sounded distinctly old-fashioned thirty years ago. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/15 "2008-03-21T13:34:52Z")
[QUOTE=FriarTed] So you are also understandably alarmed by the influence of the Council on Foreign Relations, the Trilateral Commission and the Bildeberg Conferences? [/QUOTE] Well, sometimes, kindasorta. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/16 "2008-03-21T13:41:12Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] There are people with power, and they get together to talk about how to wield that power. Gahh! The world is so scary! [/QUOTE] I’d be a little happier if they all got together to have group sex rather than pray. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/17 "2008-03-21T13:50:53Z")
[QUOTE=Maeglin] I’d be a little happier if they all got together to have group sex rather than pray. [/QUOTE] [That’s a different event.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohemian_grove) ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/18 "2008-03-21T16:37:05Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] So far, so innocuous – but further down it gets effin’ **scary.** [/QUOTE] It would only be scary if you had evidence Clinton’s personal views and policy as President will follow along the worst possible interpretation of the vague, meandering claims made in the article. Since there is really no objective reason whatsoever to believe that Clinton’s views or policies are even within shouting distance of extreme right-wing evangelicalism, there’s nothing scary about it at all. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/19 "2008-03-21T19:44:13Z")
[QUOTE=RickJay] It would only be scary if you had evidence Clinton’s personal views and policy as President will follow along the worst possible interpretation of the vague, meandering claims made in the article. underlining mine - **kd99** [/QUOTE] Nitpick: I believe the word you’re looking for is “_would_”. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2008, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100/20 "2008-03-21T21:05:40Z")
There’s enough reason to not vote for Hillary that we don’t have to make up bullshit conspiracy theories. Might as well stick with the fact that she’s ineffective, opportunistic to the extreme, and very unlikely to win a national election. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-member-of-a-secretive-rw-christian-cult-the-family/442100.md?page=2)