# HRC supporters coming after Bernie Sanders & his party re-vamping suggestions with knives out **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 25, 2017, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182 "2017-04-25T02:29:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/101 "2017-05-06T23:26:24Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Nope…no evidence of wrongdoing. Pay no attention to the woman behind the curtain. > > Oh wait: > > [Released Emails Suggest the D.N.C. Derided the Sanders Campaign](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/23/us/politics/dnc-emails-sanders-clinton.html?ref=politics) > > Or Post #68 in this thread. Yes. They “derided” it. As in, they made fun of it. Only an illiterate would take that to mean that they took any actual adverse action. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/102 "2017-05-06T23:26:36Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Fact is Sanders has been in public service far, far longer than Clinton so your assertion of Sanders’ lack of experience fails right out of the gate. All right then, since your idea of qualification is mere longevity: What would you say is the signature achievement of Sanders in his long life of public service? If it’s “He served as an inspiration yada yada” then we’re done here. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/103 "2017-05-06T23:34:32Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > After Iowa he was within 8 delegates (I am not counting superdelegates). > > After New Hampshire he was within 7 delegates. That’s like saying that Michigan “almost” beat Duke for the 1992 men’s basketball championship because they had a 1 point lead at the half, event though they ended up losing by 20. Except it’s even worse, because a single-digit delegate deficit after the first two (of 57) primaries is even _less_ than a single-point advantage halfway through. Seriously, that’s an incredibly fucking stupid thing to say. ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/104 "2017-05-06T23:36:03Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > It is a mystery. Sanders was better for minorities by a LONG SHOT than Clinton was. The Clintons somehow locked in the African American vote and have always had it despite them not doing well for African Americans (remember her calling the “superpredators”?). Yeah, if only those stupid blacks knew what was best for them… ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2017, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/105 "2017-05-06T23:47:00Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > Seriously, that’s an incredibly fucking stupid thing to say. Beren, I’d prefer you to learn to moderate your tone in Great Debates and Elections. If you don’t do so, I will. I hope that’s clear. If you must take that tone - and you don’t really have to - please do so in The BBQ Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/106 "2017-05-07T00:48:33Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > After Iowa he was within 8 delegates (I am not counting superdelegates). > > After New Hampshire he was within 7 delegates. > > Looking at the table for this it gets hard to do the math in my head but the above is single digits. Are you serious? Do you realize how silly this comment looks? Those were the first two contests of the campaign. Of course they’d be in single digits. You might as well say, “Yes the Yankees lost to the Red Sox but at one point they were tied” because at the end of the first inning the score was 0-0. You’ll note I already pointed out > [@](#): > > **Ibn Warraq** > Yes, you could legitimately argue after Iowa and NH they were extremely close, but once they moved out of the lilly white states where the candidate who had the support of affluent college students had an advantage, things went quickly south for him. > > He was obliterated in South Carolina and destroyed in Super Tuesday States as soon as black voters were allowed to express how they felt about him and she built up a huge delegate lead which he never overcame. > [@](#): > > I do. By the end Clinton was regaining what she had lost to Obama as was within striking distance of winning. No, that’s not remotely accurate. > [@](#): > > As I recall, at the end, it was a negotiation between her and Obama and she got Sec State to pull back. Again, that’s not remotely accurate. > [@](#): > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...5&postcount=68](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/...5&postcount=68) Yes, they had negative feelings about Sanders for a lot of reasons. Wouldn’t you agree that considering his history of doing things like arguing that if a man got prostate cancer it was because he was humiliated by “a bitch” and that 16 year old girls who didn’t ignore their mothers and start having lots of sex would get orgasms that the DNC had reasons to be concerned? > [@](#): > > Undemocratic how? Those states seem happy with it and the constitution mandates a republican form of government (not to be confused with the republican party). If it was so undemocratic surely it would have been stopped. > > Things are not undemocratic because you do not like the results. What? Do you understand how caucuses work? Do you understand how they grossly favor people who have huge amounts of time on their hand, such as students and the retired as opposed to people with jobs and families? You do realize how low the turnouts they have are so low and why primaries are more representative? Here’s a good explanation as to why. [https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-system-isnt-rigged-against-sanders/](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-system-isnt-rigged-against-sanders/) > [@](#): > > Nebraska and Washington are part of a pattern. As Sanders fans claim that the Democratic primary system is rigged against their candidate and that Sanders wins when turnout is higher, they fail to point out that Sanders has benefited tremendously from low-turnout caucuses. Indeed, if all the caucuses were primaries, Clinton would be winning the Democratic nomination by an even wider margin than she is now. > [@](#): > > Sanders has a lifetime of working with minorities Clinton can’t match. This statement is preposterous. What is his “lifetime of working with minorities”? He participated in some sit-ins in college and then moved to lily-White Vermont where he did nothing for minorities. He voted repeatedly throughout his 16 years in the House the way the NRA wanted him to vote. Would you agree that the plethora of guns in cities and lack of gun control has quite a bit to do with the homicide rates among minorities? Would you agree that African-American and Latinos would understandably upset about someone who opposed gun control measures? Do you want me to bring up the career of the Clintons’? African-Americans are quite aware of that. Furthermore, how familiar are you with Sanders stance on immigrants prior to 2013? > [@](#): > > It is a mystery. Seriously? Have you ever talked to any African-Americans who supported either or the Clintons? There’s a reason Clinton was called “America’s first Black President” by one the most prominent public intellectuals among African-Americans. > [@](#): > > My guess is the Clintons got church pastors on their side and they pushed them in church. Just a guess though. Wow. Conjuring up racial stereotypes isn’t terribly persuasive. > [@](#): > > And the DNC had their thumb on the scale. So, is your position that the DNC had it’s thumb on the scale in 2016 for HRC but not in 2008 or that it was easier to rig the election against a rich white guy like Sanders who’d been in Congress for 25 years than it was against a black guy named Hussein who’d only been in Congress for 4 years? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/107 "2017-05-07T04:26:57Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > Yeah, if only those stupid blacks knew what was best for them… Notwithstanding Jonathan Chance’s previous note for a different post of yours, this post here crosses the line in its uncalled for inflammatory nature. \*\*This is a warning for being a jerk. \*\* Continued hostility will not bode well and I second Jonathan’s earlier recommendation. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Beren\_Erchamion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/90ced4/32.png) [@Beren\_Erchamion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beren_Erchamion)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/108 "2017-05-07T04:36:34Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Notwithstanding Jonathan Chance’s previous note for a different post of yours, this post here crosses the line in its uncalled for inflammatory nature. \*\*This is a warning for being a jerk. \*\* > > Continued hostility will not bode well and I second Jonathan’s earlier recommendation. > > [/moderating] When someone openly demonstrates a racist worldview, am I just supposed to let it slide? I’m the one taking a stand against another’s racism, but _I’m_ the jerk. Sure. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/109 "2017-05-07T06:04:27Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What is his “lifetime of working with minorities”? He participated in some sit-ins in college and then moved to lily-White Vermont where he did nothing for minorities. > > He voted repeatedly throughout his 16 years in the House the way the NRA wanted him to vote. > > Would you agree that the plethora of guns in cities and lack of gun control has quite a bit to do with the homicide rates among minorities? > > Would you agree that African-American and Latinos would understandably upset about someone who opposed gun control measures? [I would agree that you don’t know what you’re talking about.](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jan/20/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-nra-report-card-d-minus-most-recent/) ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/110 "2017-05-07T06:08:31Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > What is his “lifetime of working with minorities”? He participated in some sit-ins in college and then moved to lily-White Vermont where he did nothing for minorities. And what kind of twisted racist bullshit is this? Anyone who lives in a predominately white State is\* ipso facto\* not to be trusted? Why Democrats Lose Elections, Exhibit A. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/111 "2017-05-07T06:21:19Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > [I would agree that you don’t know what you’re talking about.](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2016/jan/20/bernie-s/bernie-sanders-nra-report-card-d-minus-most-recent/) I said he opposed gun control measures and referred to his record in the House. You’ll note I explicitly referred to “his 16 years in the House”. The report you’re linking to refers to his rating from 2012 six years after he left the House of Representatives. Are you denying while he was in the House of Representatives he voted against the Brady Bill on five separate occasions? Are you denying he was one of the supporters of a Bill giving broad federal immunity from law suits to gun manufactures and gun sellers? Beyond that, I’m really not sure why you’d be surprised. I have family in Vermont and Sanders voted that way largely because he understood that for a large number of his constituents guns were an important cultural issue that couldn’t be touched. Keep in mind part of the reason he won his seat in 1990 was because his Republican opponent ran afoul of the NRA. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/112 "2017-05-07T06:56:25Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I said he opposed gun control measures and referred to his record in the House. You’ll note I explicitly referred to “his 16 years in the House”. The report you’re linking to refers to his rating from 2012 six years after he left the House of Representatives. The report he linked to has ratings going back to 1992, and they are not good (all Ds and Fs in the 1990s). Not looking like you have the facts straight. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/113 "2017-05-07T06:59:09Z")
So what’s your point? That nobody from Vermont should be allowed to be President? And if we’re going to dredge up stuff from the 1990s, how about NAFTA? How about the [100:1 disparity](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/15/bill-clinton-crime-bill-hillary-black-lives-thomas-frank)in mandatory minimum sentencing between crack and powder cocaine, contributing to the mass incarceration of African Americans? Yeah, I’m familiar with the career of the Clintons. When it suited them to pander to racists by describing young Black men as “super-predators”, they had no qualms about doing so. Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders has been a consistent and reliable supporter of civil rights his entire career. ---
**Author:** ![Thing\_Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecb155/32.png) [@Thing\_Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing_Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/114 "2017-05-07T07:00:19Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The report he linked to has ratings going back to 1992, and they are not good (all Ds and Fs in the 1990s). Not looking like you have the facts straight. nm ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/115 "2017-05-07T07:11:12Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The report he linked to has ratings going back to 1992, and they are not good (all Ds and Fs in the 1990s). Not looking like you have the facts straight. Saying I “don’t have my facts straight” is a pretty strong statement. I said “he opposed gun control measures” and in fact he voted against the Brady Bill on multiple occasions throughout the 90s as well as other gun control measures. [http://www.slate.com/articles/news\_and\_politics/jurisprudence/2015/05/bernie\_sanders\_on\_guns\_vermont\_independent\_voted\_against\_gun\_control\_for.html](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2015/05/bernie_sanders_on_guns_vermont_independent_voted_against_gun_control_for.html) [http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/13/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-voted-against-brady/](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/13/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-voted-against-brady/) Wouldn’t you concede someone who voted against the Brady Bill five times has “voted against gun control measures.” This should hardly be a surprise. Vermont is a rural state and the people their feel strongly about their guns and Sanders voted the way his constituents wanted him to vote. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/116 "2017-05-07T07:14:59Z")
Actually, you said he voted the way the NRA wanted him to vote. In which case it seems odd he got so low a rating. Most likely you are focusing on a few instances that don’t accurately reflect his overall position on this issue. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/117 "2017-05-07T07:18:36Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > So what’s your point? That nobody from Vermont should be allowed to be President? > > And if we’re going to dredge up stuff from the 1990s, how about NAFTA? How about the [100:1 disparity](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/apr/15/bill-clinton-crime-bill-hillary-black-lives-thomas-frank)in mandatory minimum sentencing between crack and powder cocaine, contributing to the mass incarceration of African Americans? Yeah, I’m familiar with the career of the Clintons. When it suited them to pander to racists by describing young Black men as “super-predators”, they had no qualms about doing so. Meanwhile, Bernie Sanders has been a consistent and reliable supporter of civil rights his entire career. You may feel Bernie Sanders was somehow better for Black people than the Clintons but there’s little evidence most black people agree with you and their ones in the best position to judge. Beyond that it’s a bit weird you’re attacking Hillary for the 1994 crime bill. You are aware that Bernie Sanders voted for it aren’t you? If the crime bill was “pandering to racists” does that mean he was pandering to racists? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/118 "2017-05-07T07:25:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Actually, you said he voted the way the NRA wanted him to vote. In which case it seems odd he got so low a rating. Most likely you are focusing on a few instances that don’t accurately reflect his overall position on this issue. Uh-huh. Are you saying the Slate and politifact articles I provided as sources weren’t “accurately reflect[ing] his position”? Wouldn’t you agree that the Brady Bill was the key gun control issue of the 1990s? ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/119 "2017-05-07T14:57:05Z")
> [@Thing\_Fish](#): > > And what kind of twisted racist bullshit is this? Anyone who lives in a predominately white State is\* ipso facto\* not to be trusted? Why Democrats Lose Elections, Exhibit A. Please do not appear to call other posters racist. If you feel you must, the BBQ Pit is right around the corner. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2017, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182/120 "2017-05-09T14:10:55Z")
> [@Beren\_Erchamion](#): > > Precisely none of that is in any way rooted in reality. > > We deal in reality-based statements here, sorry. Sorry, I thought the chairwoman of the DNC resigned in scandalous disgrace for an actual reason. I didn’t realize it wasn’t for anything reality-based. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hrc-supporters-coming-after-bernie-sanders-his-party-re-vamping-suggestions-with-knives-out/785182.md?page=7)