# HTML Font Question
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [February 1, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087 "2004-02-01T20:35:29Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2004, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/1 "2004-02-01T20:35:29Z")
So I was over at [IGNcube.com](http://IGNcube.com) when I realized that messing around with IE’s “text size” option had no affect on IGN’s text. Is there a way I can replicate that in HTML, or are they using something a bit more sophisticated?
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### Author:  [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/2 "2004-02-01T20:41:09Z")
That’s the standard action in IE when the font size has been defined using CSS (Cascading Style Sheets). If every single font element on the page has a definition in the stylesheet, then the IE font size change won’t be affected. On some sites, not all of the fonts will be described thus, and you’ll see some of the text change size, but not other bits. CSS isn’t strictly HTML, but it’s very common these days.
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### Author:  [@fezpp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fezpp)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2004, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/3 "2004-02-01T20:59:57Z")
> [@jjimm](#):
>
> That’s the standard action in IE when the font size has been defined using CSS (Cascading Style Sheets). If every single font element on the page has a definition in the stylesheet, then the IE font size change won’t be affected. On some sites, not all of the fonts will be described thus, and you’ll see some of the text change size, but not other bits. CSS isn’t strictly HTML, but it’s very common these days.
I don’t think that’s strictly true. If font sizes are defined using px rather than pt they will not be affected by IE’s accessibility options.
Many designers do this to protect their design but purists would say that it is not good use of html as it prevents the end user having the flexibility of use.
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### Author:  [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/4 "2004-02-01T21:39:38Z")
Actually…
If you specify the font-size property with fixed units - _in, cm, mm, pt, pc, px_ - then IE will not let you resize.
However, if you specify the font-size with relative units - _em, ex_ - or percentages, or so-called absolute-size keywords - _xx-small, x-small, small, medium, large, x-large, xx-large_ - or soi-disant relative-size keywords - _larger, smaller_ - then IE will let you resize. I think.
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### Author:  [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2004, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/5 "2004-02-01T22:58:08Z")
Sorry to voice an opinion in General Questions, but please **don’t** do this on a website. It is incredibly annoying - akin to saying “this is _my_ design, and you’ll read it how _I_ want you to”. The whole point of HTML is that the user can define how they want to view the information. Fixing the font size (normally at far too small a size) is just wrong. Just ask my parents when they’re struggling to read tiny fonts. :mad:
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### Author:  [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2004, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/6 "2004-02-02T00:01:12Z")
> [@r\_k](#):
>
> Sorry to voice an opinion in General Questions, but please **don’t** do this on a website. It is incredibly annoying - akin to saying “this is _my_ design, and you’ll read it how _I_ want you to”. The whole point of HTML is that the user can define how they want to view the information. Fixing the font size (normally at far too small a size) is just wrong. Just ask my parents when they’re struggling to read tiny fonts. :mad:
I know, but my website does not cater to an older audience, thus I don’t care if they can’t read the text. Also, a larger font tends to disrupt my page’s layout, hence my original question.
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### Author:  [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2004, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/7 "2004-02-02T00:04:21Z")
OK, but what do you gain by not allowing people to change the size? If it looks neat at the default size that you use, then cool - people will look at it like that if they can read it. If not, then isn’t it considerate to at least allow them the option of making the text bigger, at the expense of the pretty layout?
After all, it’s not going to affect the way the page looks to you.
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### Author:  [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/8 "2004-02-02T00:11:18Z")
> [@Duderdude2](#):
>
> I know, but my website does not cater to an older audience, thus I don’t care if they can’t read the text. Also, a larger font tends to disrupt my page’s layout, hence my original question.
The thing is, you have a bad layout. Not that that’s the worst thing in the world. It’s only as bad as having a high-contrast background that makes the text unreadable unless you highlight it, or sloppy coding that makes all the punctuation show up as question marks, or a font so big you need a horizontal scroll bar. And also realize that every other browser besides IE will allow people to resize the text anyway, and from the way web designers talk about it, I wouldn’t be surprised if later versions of IE do as well.
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### Author:  [@porkchop\_d\_clown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/porkchop_d_clown)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2004, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/9 "2004-02-02T00:37:36Z")
> [@Achernar](#):
>
> The thing is, you have a bad layout. Not that that’s the worst thing in the world. It’s only as bad as having a high-contrast background that makes the text unreadable unless you highlight it, or sloppy coding that makes all the punctuation show up as question marks, or a font so big you need a horizontal scroll bar. And also realize that every other browser besides IE will allow people to resize the text anyway, and from the way web designers talk about it, I wouldn’t be surprised if later versions of IE do as well.
You’re dead right.
Prohibiting the users from viewing the way _they_ want is pretty lame. You don’t know what size monitor the viewer has, or if they are trying to look at your page on a PDA or a phone, or if they’re using an unusual browser.
Duderdude2 - let the browser do it’s job and stop trying to control your users.
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### Author:  [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2004, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/10 "2004-02-02T00:47:35Z")
> [@Achernar](#):
>
> The thing is, you have a bad layout.
You can’t determine that without seeing the site. I don’t care about other browsers, etc. The majority of net surfers use IE, I’m not going after the lowest common denominator. Furthermore, this is GENERAL QUESTIONS, I don’t want to hear any more opinions on this matter.
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### Author:  [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/11 "2004-02-02T00:48:58Z")
> [@porkchop\_d\_clown](#):
>
> Duderdude2 - let the browser do it’s job and stop trying to control your users.
“Stop trying to control [my] users”? What are you talking about? It’s not about control, it’s about how my site looks. Shit, my site isn’t even intended for others outside of a few select people to ever see! NOW BACK TO THE QUESTION!
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### Author:  [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2004, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/12 "2004-02-02T00:56:16Z")
> [@Duderdude2](#):
>
> You can’t determine that without seeing the site. I don’t care about other browsers, etc. The majority of net surfers use IE, I’m not going after the lowest common denominator. Furthermore, this is GENERAL QUESTIONS, I don’t want to hear any more opinions on this matter.
I’ll be happy to look at the site if you want. However, I was just pointing out that there are very real, pragmatic problems with what it sounds like your layout is; it is somewhat subjective, sure, but it’s not just my opinion. Also, just because somebody’s advice isn’t useful to you doesn’t mean it won’t be useful to someone else reading this thread with the same problem.
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### Author:  [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2004, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/13 "2004-02-02T01:11:46Z")
> [@Achernar](#):
>
> I’ll be happy to look at the site if you want.
There’s no need to.
It just irritates me when people call into question my site’s design, when they have no understanding of the site’s intent or target demographic. Obviously most IGN visitors don’t take issue with the inability to adjust text size, as they have one of the largest audiences of any website in the gaming field.
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### Author:  [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/14 "2004-02-02T01:35:10Z")
Then again, internet users put up with a lot of nonsense they probably don’t have to.
Although “target audience and demographic” is used to make a point about design sometimes, that’s not what it’s about. So saying “the elderly aren’t welcome on my site anyway, so I don’t care if they see it” doesn’t make an impression on me, FWIW.
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### Author:  [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2004, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/15 "2004-02-02T01:38:56Z")
Er… not to say that that’s actually what you said. I just mean, even an extreme a position as that would not nullify what people are saying, so a less extreme position like yours certainly doesn’t.
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### Author:  [@Freiheit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freiheit)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2004, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/16 "2004-02-02T05:36:08Z")
Why not link us?
> [@Duderdude2](#):
>
> There’s no need to.
>
> It just irritates me when people call into question my site’s design, when they have no understanding of the site’s intent or target demographic. Obviously most IGN visitors don’t take issue with the inability to adjust text size, as they have one of the largest audiences of any website in the gaming field.
Just because they’re big doesn’t mean people don’t care.
> [@Duderdude2](#):
>
> “Stop trying to control [my] users”? What are you talking about? It’s not about control, it’s about how my site looks. Shit, my site isn’t even intended for others outside of a few select people to ever see! NOW BACK TO THE QUESTION!
Yeah, you’re trying to _control_ how your site looks. But the look of the site should remain constant with variable text size. Any less is a disservice to your users.
And I don’t think anyone wants to be ordered to answer a question of some guy on the internet.
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### Author:  [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2004, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/17 "2004-02-02T05:53:20Z")
> [@Freiheit](#):
>
> And I don’t think anyone wants to be ordered to answer a question of some guy on the internet.
I merely meant that I did not want any more opinions (or any at all for that matter). If I had, I would have posted my question in. IMHO. Thanks for understanding.
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### Author:  [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2004, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/18 "2004-02-02T05:56:33Z")
I think some of you are being a bit hard on Duderdude. You can’t dictate how he wants his site to look. If he has a strong idea of who his target audience is, let him make the site that he deems suitable.
Take it from someone who finds relative font settings a real hassle because of the vagaries of cross-browser incompatability, sometimes fixed sizes are the only answer to gain any sanity.
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### Author:  [@Achernar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achernar)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2004, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/19 "2004-02-02T06:04:41Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#):
>
> Take it from someone who finds relative font settings a real hassle because of the vagaries of cross-browser incompatability, sometimes fixed sizes are the only answer to gain any sanity.
That doesn’t make sense to me. The point (or at least one point) is that there is only _one_ current browser that I know of that will show only the size you specify. So if cross-browser quirks is your problem, fixed font sizes is not the solution.
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### Author:  [@Duderdude2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duderdude2)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2004, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/html-font-question/227087/20 "2004-02-02T06:16:08Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#):
>
> I think some of you are being a bit hard on Duderdude. You can’t dictate how he wants his site to look. If he has a strong idea of who his target audience is, let him make the site that he deems suitable.
>
> Take it from someone who finds relative font settings a real hassle because of the vagaries of cross-browser incompatability, sometimes fixed sizes are the only answer to gain any sanity.
Thanks. The others just don’t understand what I’m trying to do, yet I’m in the wrong regardless _sigh_
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