# Huck Finn publisher removes some offensive language - Thoughts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 5, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441 "2011-01-05T01:45:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441/101 "2011-01-06T06:36:09Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > IMHO, not a true comparison: > In this case, Huck Finn is not being broadcast in audio or film format, so the FCC has no jurisdiction. :dubious: Of course the FCC has no jurisdiction. The point is that public school, like public airwaves belong to the people, and are regulated/funded by the government. The people in responsible for managing both the airwaves and the schools routinely censor things, regulate and prohibit obscenities, and determine what is acceptable. I don’t see how you can be okay with one form of this and not the other. Obviously this particular case is dependent on your opinion of the book in question. However, when people make it seem as though censorship is always wrong as a general rule, I would argue that that ship has already sailed. > [@flickster](#): > > A truer comparison to the printed media would be CDs, which of course are not censored by the FCC (nor should they be). But they are often censored by Walmart and many others. More importantly, your comparison is less apt because neither the publisher nor the school are preventing anyone from reading the book as written. A student can download the ebook, get it from the library, or order it from Amazon in its uncensored form. They are just saying that they, the publishing house (or their school) will not use the book as written. Just as the FCC doesn’t tell Ceelo Green he can’t record as song called, “Fuck You”. They just say radio stations using the public airwaves that they can’t play the record (as written) on the air. The question hinges more upon how _much_ censorship should be allowed in arenas where tax payer money and public sentiment are involved, not _if_. Few would be okay with children reading pornographic material or watching violent movies in school. Even something with artistic value like American History X, Pulp Fiction, or Schindler’s List would not be good viewing material for a 2nd grade class (for example). So we can all agree that things are often correctly “censored” by omission. What makes this case different is that a classic novel has had certain words expurgated. I can understand the visceral reaction that comes when you mess with celebrated work of art, but I think it’s kinda illogical to paint this as an aversion to censorship in general. I ask you this, if a public school directed its music teacher to only play clean versions of the rap songs they study in class, would you be against that? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441/102 "2011-01-06T09:10:06Z")
The rewriting astounded me, so I am grateful for this response: > [@Evil\_Captor](#): > > Ok, here’s my plan. Make Injun Joe a Mayan. Mayan Joe, a crazed sun god worshiper condemned to wander in black caverns hidden from the sun for all his days. So dramatic! > > Nigger Jim? Make him Black Irish! Give him a nice brogue, people can say “We don’t want the Irish!” to show the prejudice against him, and Black sounds so much less prejudicial than “nigger.” > > Finally, lets throw in some dinosaurs! Makes for more excitement and is more likely to lead to a movie deal. I think we’ve got something really dynamic going here, a real 21st century update of a tired old work. Let’s do lunch! BTW, there’s a work _far_ more famous and popular than _Huckleberry Finn_ which has many instances of profanities like “God Almighty” and “Jesus Christ,” as well as talk of men laying with women. Hadn’t _It_ better be revised as well, perhaps with the substitutions “Good Gosh”, “Gee Whiz” and the men just sending text messages to the girls? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441/103 "2011-01-06T14:06:55Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > This is the point. The word exists. It is out there, and nothing will bring it back, but it is only offensive when used as a pejorative, not when discussed in a dispassionate, academic setting. _Huckleberry Finn_ is a perfect opportunity to explore the historical context and etymology of the word without having to question the user’s intent. Bowdlerizing the text eliminates that. But is he doing this? I haven’t seen the books, but I would assume that they would admit that they are the censored version. It’s no more deceptive than an adaptation or abridged version that is clearly labeled. And, yes, my idea of blacking out the word was specifically to call attention to the use of the word without actually using it. I am of the mind that most people find the appearance of the word itself objective, not the concept that it was used. That’s why almost all modern censorship is so completely obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441/104 "2011-01-06T15:12:24Z")
> [@Moe](#): > > My sympathy though goes out to the shy kid in the class who’s forced to read passages from the book out loud and can’t absorb the meaning because he is too concentrated on the fact that he has to keep saying this word which carries so much pain and discomfort. (and to the poster in this thread who joked sarcastically about black kids not being comfortable saying the word “nigger”, c’mon do you really need the difference explained to you?). I wasn’t joking, and I don’t need it explained to me. I must have misunderstood, because I thought we were talking about all the kids, and now it’s one shy kid. My mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441/105 "2011-01-06T15:16:25Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > But is he doing this? I haven’t seen the books, but I would assume that they would admit that they are the censored version. It’s no more deceptive than an adaptation or abridged version that is clearly labeled. Who said it was deceptive? I said it was bowdlerized, and it is. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441/106 "2011-01-06T18:43:48Z")
What are they going to do next…censor **Blazing Saddles**? ---
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441/107 "2011-01-06T19:14:21Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I wasn’t joking, and I don’t need it explained to me. I must have misunderstood, because I thought we were talking about all the kids, and now it’s one shy kid. My mistake. Well, the “one shy kid” was just an example. If it was, and is, one, than it wouldn’t be an issue as far as I’m concerned. I honestly don’t know. Like I said, I saw some responses on a news report by a few black kids who felt embarrassed. It’s quite possible the journalist selected for such responses. If you weren’t joking, than yes, you do need it explained to you. Somehow though, I find it hard to believe that you really don’t see a difference between teenagers using the word “nigger” between each other in a social context and reading the word as used in the context of the antebellum south. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441/108 "2011-01-06T19:55:24Z")
Perhaps my favorite Finn excerpt is the letter to Miss Watson: > [@](#): > > So I was full of trouble, full as I could be; and didn’t know what to do. At last I had an idea; and I says, I’ll go and write the letter - and then see if I can pray. Why, it was astonishing, the way I felt as light as a feather right straight off, and my troubles all gone. So I got a piece of paper and a pencil, all glad and excited, and set down and wrote: > > _Miss Watson, your runaway nigger Jim is down here two mile below Pikesville, and Mr. Phelps has got him and he will give him up for the reward if you send. Huck Finn._ > I felt good and all washed clean of sin for the first time I had ever felt so in my life, and I knowed I could pray now. But I didn’t do it straight off, but laid the paper down and set there thinking - thinking how good it was all this happened so, and how near I come to being lost and going to hell. And went on thinking. And got to thinking over our trip down the river; and I see Jim before me all the time: in the day and in the night-time, sometimes moonlight, sometimes storms, and we a-floating along, talking and singing and laughing. But somehow I couldn’t seem to strike no places to harden me against him, but only the other kind. I’d see him standing my watch on top of his’n, 'stead of calling me, so I could go on sleeping; and see him how glad he was when I come back out of the fog; and when I come to him again in the swamp, up there where the feud was; and suchlike times; and would always call me honey, and pet me, and do everything he could think of for me, and how good he always was; and at last I struck the time I saved him by telling the men we had smallpox aboard, and he was so grateful, and said I was the best friend old Jim ever had in the world, and the only one he’s got now; and then I happened to look around and see that paper. > > It was a close place. I took it up, and held it in my hand. I was a-trembling, because I’d got to decide, forever, betwixt two things, and I knowed it. I studied a minute, sort of holding my breath, and then says to myself: > > “All right, then, I’ll go to hell” - and tore it up. Also the part about Jim’s children. The entire book is about, at least in part, Huck coming to see Jim not as Miss Watson’s funny stupid nigger but as a real fully rounded and sentient and intelligent man. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441/109 "2011-01-06T19:58:08Z")
Another idea - they could replace ‘nigger’ with ‘retard’ everywhere. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441/110 "2011-01-06T20:49:38Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Another idea - they could replace ‘nigger’ with ‘retard’ everywhere. Or “big fat queer Jewboy Belgian bastard”. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441/111 "2011-01-06T22:33:14Z")
> [@Moe](#): > > Regardless of how well the teacher can explain the reason and larger meaning of the work, even if the kids can truly embrace this at some level, I can understand how distracting that might be for 13 and 14 year olds. > > As long as each individual school has the choice of which version to use (and as long as this version is never used at the college level) I’m OK with it. For the record, the [introduction to the new edition](http://www.newsouthbooks.com/twain/introduction-alan-gribben-mark-twain-tom-sawyer-huckleberry-finn-newsouth-books.html) says, > [@Alan Gribben](#): > > Even at the level of college and graduate school, students are capable of resenting textual encounters with this racial appellative. > … > For nearly forty years I have led college classes, bookstore forums, and library reading groups in detailed discussions of Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn in California, Texas, New York, and Alabama, and I always recoiled from uttering the racial slurs spoken by numerous characters, including Tom and Huck. I invariably substituted the word “slave” for Twain’s ubiquitous n-word whenever I read any passages aloud. Gribben is _not_ concerned only with the tenderest young readers; he’s been applying his personal revision for the benefit of adult audiences for years now. Also, **Sampiro** mentioned Pap Finn; it’s worth [pointing to](http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/01/05/does-one-word-change-huckleberry-finn/the-words-of-pap-finns-rant) a discussion of that passage, as it’s one of the clearest examples of how the edit doesn’t merely gentle the reading, but actively subverts the meaning. (I like the comment from the parent whose 11- and 14-year-old daughters seem to understand this just fine.) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441/112 "2011-01-06T22:54:33Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Also, **Sampiro** mentioned Pap Finn; it’s worth [pointing to](http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2011/01/05/does-one-word-change-huckleberry-finn/the-words-of-pap-finns-rant) a discussion of that passage, as it’s one of the clearest examples of how the edit doesn’t merely gentle the reading, but actively subverts the meaning. Very much so. And the author also points out that someone else published an edition of _Huck Finn_ that made the same change 25 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![Moe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moe/32/2972_2.png) [@Moe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moe)\ **Post date:** [January 6, 2011, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441/113 "2011-01-06T23:08:09Z")
Well, then I think Gribben is an idiot and this is a travesty. Just to reiterate: the ONLY use I could ever support for such an edit is for group classroom reading at the HS level, and even then I would leave it up to the judgement of the teacher. ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441/114 "2011-01-08T04:51:10Z")
Thank goodness, censorship is finally coming into its own! I believe that if they don’t like it, they should not put it in the school. Best wishes. hh ---
**Author:** ![handsomeharry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9c0ed/32.png) [@handsomeharry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/handsomeharry)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441/115 "2011-01-08T04:53:24Z")
> [@vivalostwages](#): > > What are they going to do next…censor **Blazing Saddles**? “The sheriff is a slave!” Best wishes, hh ---
**Author:** ![Kiyoshi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e19adc/32.png) [@Kiyoshi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiyoshi)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441/116 "2011-01-08T18:22:31Z")
From my (foreign) perspective, this sort of censorship seems pretty odd for a country so passionate about freedom of speech. Is the word “nigger” really so awful in America that people want the book to be censored? It’s only a word. I can’t think of any word that would offend me. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441/117 "2011-01-08T18:35:16Z")
> [@Kiyoshi](#): > > From my (foreign) perspective, this sort of censorship seems pretty odd for a country so passionate about freedom of speech. Many, many Americans support and fight for censorship. Some of these people even consider themselves super-patriots, which is funny considering they like to pretend the first amendment doesn’t exist. Example: On the dating site OkCupid there’s the question “Do you think flag burning should be illegal?” and a great many people respond in the affirmative. > [@Kiyoshi](#): > > Is the word “nigger” really so awful in America that people want the book to be censored? It’s only a word. I can’t think of any word that would offend me. Huck Finn is one of the most commonly found entries on schools’ lists of banned books along with Catcher in the Rye and so on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huck-finn-publisher-removes-some-offensive-language-thoughts/566441.md?page=5)