LOL. Lying on your resume anywhere else gets you an immediate firing or not being hired in the first place. In American politics - somehow it’s OK! :rolleyes:
If I actually thought there was a difference between Dems and Reps, I might care. All the mainstream candidates are bought and paid for by the same interests no matter what the affiliation, so to me one is just as shitty as another anyway.
I think it’s a bit disturbing when a presidential candidate doesn’t appear to know the title of their own college degree.
Huckabee was trying to establish that his “theology degree” gave him greater understanding about the current war against theocracy.
“Theocracy” sounds a lot like “theology,” doesn’t it? If he’d wanted to draw the same close connection with his “religion degree,” he’d either have had to rephrase his remark to claim that we’re in a “religious war,” or a “war against religion.” Neither one of those phrasings would probably have gone down too well. So he decided to bend the truth just a bit for dramatic effect, and hoped that no one would notice.
It’s either that, or he genuinely doesn’t remember what his diploma says. I know lots of guys like that, but they’re not running for president.
[QUOTE=Oregon sunshine]
If I actually thought there was a difference between Dems and Reps, I might care.
[/QUOTE]
It’s sad that you don’t. It means you haven’t been paying attention.
So thanks to his degree, he understands Islam as well as he understands Mormonism?
[QUOTE=Terrifel]
I think it’s a bit disturbing when a presidential candidate doesn’t appear to know the title of their own college degree.
[/QUOTE]
Is that really a fair accusation? I don’t think so. By all indications, Huckabee was simply trying to highlight his theological background, in which case emphasizing the exact title of his degree would have been pointless.
Now, I suppose he could have said, “I have a bachelor’s degree in religion with extensive coursework on New Testament theology.” Still, I don’t blame him for choosing to be brief, especially since the exact title of his degree was irrelevant to the topic at hand.
[QUOTE=JThunder]
Is that really a fair accusation? I don’t think so. By all indications, Huckabee was simply trying to highlight his theological background, in which case emphasizing the exact title of his degree would have been pointless.
Now, I suppose he could have said, “I have a bachelor’s degree in religion with extensive coursework on New Testament theology.” Still, I don’t blame him for choosing to be brief, especially since the exact title of his degree was irrelevant to the topic at hand.
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Or he could have just said, “I’m the only guy on that stage with a religion degree.” Voila, brevity and accuracy. Though I question whether a bachelor’s degree in either religion or theology is really a huge advantage in appreciating the politics of modern theocracies. I think this is one of those subjects where “listening to expert advisors” should generally trump a president’s undergraduate experience.
[QUOTE=JThunder]
Is that really a fair accusation? I don’t think so. By all indications, Huckabee was simply trying to highlight his theological background, in which case emphasizing the exact title of his degree would have been pointless.
Now, I suppose he could have said, “I have a bachelor’s degree in religion with extensive coursework on New Testament theology.” Still, I don’t blame him for choosing to be brief, especially since the exact title of his degree was irrelevant to the topic at hand.
[/QUOTE]
I agree. I assumed that he’d been mentioning his “theology degree” in interviews and carefully prepared statements over the course of his career. A single off-the-cuff remark in a debate where brevity counts is exactly the sort of situation where I would say I have a theology degree, and not think twice about it.
To some people, it is important that a pastor, reverend, whatever, has a college degree in preaching. It is a form of vocational training, and the phrase just means that the speaker is a genuine preacher, and not some scruffy hick from the holler.
Man, am I the only person completely baffled by this?
To me, religion is a perfectly legitimate thing to study; it exists and there is plenty of evidence helping us piece together its history and understanding its place in society. Theology is just people making shit up about imaginary beings.
If I had a legitimate degree in religion, I would in no way ever want people to be confused into thinking I had a bullshit degree like theology.
So I can’t fathom why Huck would want to make this claim.
On the other hand, who cares? It is way down on the list of reasons why I won’t vote for the guy.
Below “Baptizes puppies, and then stuffs them into a blender”?
I agree that the idea of him having a degree in “theology”, even if he did have that degree, doesn’t necessarily give him any insight into Islamist philosophy. I’d like to see a list of which classes he took that even had any discussion of Islam first. It was a stupid thing for him to say, and my guess is that he is going to trip on more things like this as the campaign ramps up.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
It was a stupid thing for him to say, and my guess is that he is going to trip on more things like this as the campaign ramps up.
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I don’t think that the vast majority of Americans would agree with you on the first part of your statement.
WRT to the second part, I would guess that it is more likely he won’t trip up. I saw an excerpt of his interview with Stephen Colbert where Huckabee offered him the running mate position and Colbert responded “I’ll meet you at the altar”.
Priceless! But Huckabee responded immediately “I won’t go that far”, which I thought expertly diffused what could have been a prickly situation for him.
[QUOTE=Terrifel]
Or he could have just said, “I’m the only guy on that stage with a religion degree.”
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As several posters have pointed out though, studying religion is not the same as studying theology. I don’t blame him for wanting to emphasize the theological content of his studies.
[QUOTE=JThunder]
As several posters have pointed out though, studying religion is not the same as studying theology. I don’t blame him for wanting to emphasize the theological content of his studies.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t blame him for that either. But the proper way to do that is not to say, “I’m the only one on that stage with a theology degree,” if you don’t in fact have a theology degree. That is not emphasis.
[QUOTE=Terrifel]
I don’t blame him for that either. But the proper way to do that is not to say, “I’m the only one on that stage with a theology degree,” if you don’t in fact have a theology degree. That is not emphasis.
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And several people here have opined that calling it a “theology degree” is defensible, or at the very least, not horribly inaccurate. To say that he doesn’t have a theology degree is an oversimplification.
And to say that he didn’t even know the name of his degree, as you claimed, is a gross overstatement. It requires making a broad assumption that goes far beyond the facts at hand.
Geez, guys, this ain’t about academic accreditation, its about the vocational school for preachers! Like plumbers.
Didn’t they used to call it “D.D.”, for Doctor of Divinity?
I do not liike thee, Dr. Hell
The reason why, I cannot tell…
[QUOTE=JThunder]
And several people here have opined that calling it a “theology degree” is defensible, or at the very least, not horribly inaccurate. To say that he doesn’t have a theology degree is an oversimplification.
[/quote]
So how does this defensible not-horrible-inaccuracy work in context? After all, he was citing his degree as a qualification for dealing with the menace of Islamofascist theocracy. So may we at least conclude that his degree required extensive study of Islamic theology? If so, then I’d have expected him to sacrifice brevity and emphasize that fact at length. If not, then he’s holding up his degree as evidence of expertise that he doesn’t have.
That part was really more of a joke. I am pretty sure he knows the name of his degree. So why didn’t he use it?
[QUOTE=elucidator]
Geez, guys, this ain’t about academic accreditation, its about the vocational school for preachers! Like plumbers.
Didn’t they used to call it “D.D.”, for Doctor of Divinity?
I do not liike thee, Dr. Hell
The reason why, I cannot tell…
[/QUOTE]
Well I suppose this may be the case. It seemed like an odd lapse to me, but perhaps it’s not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. I’d usually consider it more than a bit misleading to claim a zoology degree if I really had a biology degree, or a journalism degree for an English degree, or an art history degree for an art studio degree. Even if such degrees have a lot of overlap, I figure they still have separate names for a reason. But perhaps the conventions are different with religious degrees.
Or maybe I’m a bit oversensitized to false claims of presidential certitude in The War Against Terroristic Islamofascist Theocratic Anti-American Liberal War Critics.
In any case, he doesn’t appear to have a habit of referring to his degree in this manner; so this may have simply been a one-off rhetorical flourish. I suppose it doesn’t really matter all that much.
[QUOTE=elucidator]
Didn’t they used to call it “D.D.”, for Doctor of Divinity?
[/QUOTE]
No. A D.D. is a doctoral degree. There are also Bachelor’s level degrees in Theology and in Religious Studies.
[QUOTE=Terrifel]
So how does this defensible not-horrible-inaccuracy work in context? After all, he was citing his degree as a qualification for dealing with the menace of Islamofascist theocracy. So may we at least conclude that his degree required extensive study of Islamic theology? If so, then I’d have expected him to sacrifice brevity and emphasize that fact at length. If not, then he’s holding up his degree as evidence of expertise that he doesn’t have.
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Again, you’re vastly overstating the matter. Declaring that he has a theology degree does NOT mean he lacks the necessary expertise. It is admittedly insufficient to demonstrate his mastery of Islamic theology, but that’s not the same as saying that he lacks the necessary background.
I will heartily agree that he should have said more, if he wanted to truly establish his credentials. Once again though, do remember that this was an off-the-cuff remark in a forum where brevity was extremely important. Heck, at work, I’m notoriously precise with my wordings, but I also cut people slack when it comes to unscripted, casual remarks.
Besides, the issue is whether he was misrepresenting his degree or not. Several Dopers have said that they consider his statement to be inconsequential, and I heartily agree – and I speak from experience. My doctoral degree is in Electrical Engineering, but the focus made it more of a robotics program. I would never say that I have a robotics degree; however, people have occasionally described me in that manner, and I don’t bother correcting them. Nor would I correct any labmates who would describe themselves in that manner. Why? Because I think it’s a defensible statement, even though that’s not the official name of the degree.
[QUOTE=Terrifel]
That part was really more of a joke. I am pretty sure he knows the name of his degree. So why didn’t he use it?
[/QUOTE]
Several of us have already offered reasons for this, as you already know. It was an unscripted remark in a forum where brevity mattered, and where his theology background was more important than the actual title of his degree. His comment was more relevant than saying “I have a bachelor’s in religion,” while also being more brief than “I have a bachelor’s degree in religion. I took extensive coursework in theology, including Islamic theology.”
Look, I’m sorry that he didn’t phrase things with the level of precision and detail that you would have liked. I think you’re making way too much of a trivial situation – and I say this as a former academic.