# Huckabee drives the tank **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 1, 2008, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858 "2008-01-01T01:59:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/41 "2008-01-01T23:17:22Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] “Too Christian” my ass. That is not and never has been a liability for a candidate. Jimmy Carter was about as serious a Christian as has ever been in the White House. Bush is just as much a zealot as Huckabee and it’s only worked in his favor. Obama is a Born Again Christian. Hillary is a Christian. Romney and Guiliani are Christians. Everybody in the fight is a fucking Christian. 80% of the country is a Christian. You can’t get elected President WITHOUT being a Christian. Why the fuck would that be a liability? Huckabee’s problem isn’t that he’s a Christian but that he’s blatantly _theocratic_ about it. Actually, I don’t even think THAT’S such a problem anymore. A majority of Americans think Creationism should be taught in schools. There is no such thing as “too Christian” in American politics. It’s the non-Christians that don’t have a shot. The Christian Persecution Complex never ceases to amze me. Who exactly is it that you guys always imagine are out there repressing you? [/QUOTE] Okay, but Romney’s not a Christian…he’s a Mormon. Ask any Christian you know if Mormons fit that definition… ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/42 "2008-01-01T23:19:09Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] Okay, but Romney’s not a Christian…he’s a Mormon. Ask any Christian you know if Mormons fit that definition… [/QUOTE] Mormons are Christians. I don’t care what the moron fundies say. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/43 "2008-01-02T00:03:10Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] Okay, but Romney’s not a Christian…he’s a Mormon. Ask any Christian you know if Mormons fit that definition… [/QUOTE] There are plenty right here on this board who prove that assertion false. But let’s look at what the [polls](http://pewforum.org/docs/?DocID=267) say: > [@](#): > > A slim majority of the public (52%) says that Mormonism is a Christian religion, while nearly one-in-three (31%) say that Mormonism is not a Christian religion. White evangelicals stand out for their view that the Mormon religion is not Christian: a 45% plurality says that Mormonism is not Christian, while 40% say it is. Among white evangelicals who attend services at least weekly, 52% believe that the Mormon religion is not Christian. > > By contrast, large majorities of white mainline Protestants (62%) and white non-Hispanic Catholics (59%) say that Mormons are Christians. In addition, those with no formal religious affiliation also say by greater than two-to-one that the Mormon religion is Christian (59%-25%). You should stop spouting such BS on this board-- we’re supposed to be fighting ignorance, not spreading it. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/44 "2008-01-02T00:11:16Z")
[QUOTE=jtgain] Okay, but Romney’s not a Christian…he’s a Mormon. Ask any Christian you know if Mormons fit that definition… [/QUOTE] I know lots of Christians who agree that Mormons are Christians\*. It all depends on what exactly you mean by “Christian,” I suppose; Mormonism is considerably different from orthodox Christianity, and there’s been antagonism between Mormonism and orthodox Christianity since Mormonism was founded, but Mormons certainly believe Jesus is the son of God and the savior of mankind, so I’m inclined to group them under Christianity, myself. Different groups use the term “Christian” differently, and the question hinges on what it means. This is a very complex discussion that is really more appropriate for a new thread, I would think. - In fact, I know a couple of Christians who believe the Book of Mormon itself is a fairly orthodox Christian book, and don’t mind reading it along with their Bibles, which I think is a reasonably defensible position, since much of the doctrine that separates Mormonism from traditional Christianity came later, long after the Book of Mormon was published. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/45 "2008-01-02T00:42:15Z")
[QUOTE=chorpler] I know lots of Christians who agree that Mormons are Christians\*. It all depends on what exactly you mean by “Christian,” I suppose; Mormonism is considerably different from orthodox Christianity, and there’s been antagonism between Mormonism and orthodox Christianity since Mormonism was founded, but Mormons certainly believe Jesus is the son of God and the savior of mankind, so I’m inclined to group them under Christianity, myself. Different groups use the term “Christian” differently, and the question hinges on what it means. This is a very complex discussion that is really more appropriate for a new thread, I would think. - In fact, I know a couple of Christians who believe the Book of Mormon itself is a fairly orthodox Christian book, and don’t mind reading it along with their Bibles, which I think is a reasonably defensible position, since much of the doctrine that separates Mormonism from traditional Christianity came later, long after the Book of Mormon was published. [/QUOTE] I thought that “Christian” translates literally to “Christ believer”, or at least into ‘one who follows the doctrine of Christ’. Yes? No? ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/46 "2008-01-02T01:20:26Z")
[QUOTE=Chefguy] I thought that “Christian” translates literally to “Christ believer”, or at least into ‘one who follows the doctrine of Christ’. Yes? No? [/QUOTE] That’s what Mormons tend to think too. Thus their frustration when people label them non-Christian (sort of like when you get that forwarded email about Bill Gates giving you money if you forward this email). However, apparently some people feel that in order to be Christian you must also belong to the historical Christian tradition and subscribe to the Nicene creed, etc. Or there are some other trains of reasoning as well. ---
**Author:** ![Frostillicus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Frostillicus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frostillicus)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/47 "2008-01-02T04:05:53Z")
Of course Mormons are Christians. Look at their official title, for crying out loud. (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/48 "2008-01-02T05:09:43Z")
Hey, if we’re tallying “things that had a probably undue importance to a candidate’s future electoral chances”, can we include Jimmy Carter and the killer rabbit, and Bush 41 puking all over a Japanese official? Fun times. As far as Huck(ster)abee’s concerned, I take this a little more seriously, because it makes him sound more than a bit clumsy with the political maneuvers. As, sad to say, seem to be several of the candidates, from both parties. Of course, prior to this, he wasn’t in much danger of getting my vote anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/49 "2008-01-02T05:10:48Z")
[QUOTE=Frostillicus] Of course Mormons are Christians. Look at their official title, for crying out loud. (Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) [/QUOTE] The Church of Scientology has the root “science” in its official title, but there’s not a great deal of actual hard science involved there… ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/50 "2008-01-02T18:26:29Z")
It would appear from a poll taken yesterday in Iowa (motto: we have the collective political IQ of celery) that Huckabee has experienced a spike in his numbers and now leads the pack. So much for my theory. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [January 2, 2008, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/51 "2008-01-02T18:50:43Z")
> [@](#): > > I know lots of Christians who agree that Mormons are Christians\*. It all depends on what exactly you mean by “Christian,” I suppose; Mormonism is considerably different from orthodox Christianity, and there’s been antagonism between Mormonism and orthodox Christianity since Mormonism was founded, but Mormons certainly believe Jesus is the son of God and the savior of mankind, so I’m inclined to group them under Christianity, myself. As I’ve remarked several times on this Board, Lots of people in the religion biz _don’t_ consider Mormons to be “Christians”. I had a semi-professional interest in this at one time, because I was Education Chair for the local Newman Community, and had to get speakers on various topics. I soon learned that theologians and clergy from the Catholic, Episcopal, and Protestant denominations in Salt Lake City didn’t really consider Mormons to be Christians. They would in my definitions, and, from what’s been written in this thread, in those of many others. But be aware that acceptance of LDS scriptures apparently crosses some definitional line of demarcation in the books of some people. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/52 "2008-01-03T18:29:52Z")
If you don’t mind, I’d like to hark back to the incident in the OP. I don’t think his tactic of showing the press a negative ad while condemning the negativity is a mistake. That tactic has worked very well in some past presidential cycles. Why abandon what works? I haven’t been watching TV news lately, but his slam ad probably got some airtime, and for free. If he catches flak for it, well, he’s already condemned it, so he’s clean. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/53 "2008-01-03T20:52:26Z")
ISTM that the incident in the OP has been no more than a temporary setback for the Huckster. The daily tracking polls in both Iowa and NH show his support increasing over the past couple of days. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/54 "2008-01-03T20:59:24Z")
It’s the Messiah factor. Worked for Thompson for a while too, the desperate hope that someone will come riding in and Save The Day. Draft Newt! ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/55 "2008-01-03T21:04:28Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Fuck no! [/QUOTE] Ya fuckin’ dweeb! Expelling liquids through the nose is not a _good_ thing…unless you’re **Scylla** that is. Oh and a Happy New Year to you and all of your loved ones, assclown! ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/56 "2008-01-03T21:36:03Z")
May the ten thousand sexual diseases of the armadillo fester in your groin,\* cabron\*! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/57 "2008-01-03T21:47:11Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Draft Newt! [/QUOTE] Don’t. Say. That. Even in jest. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/58 "2008-01-03T22:46:53Z")
USA Today had a nice little editorial Thursday, castigating Huckabee for his deceptive quashing of the negative Romney ad. From [the editorial promo](http://www.usatoday.com), which refers to a “case study in deception”: \*"‘Clever’ communications backfire Republican presidential candidate Mike Huckabee thought he’d hoodwinked voters with his I-hate-negative-ads dog and pony show."\* It never figured that Huckabee would crash due to this one incident. But bad impressions accumulate with every indication that he’s maybe not such a lovable fellow after all. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 3, 2008, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/59 "2008-01-03T23:09:46Z")
[QUOTE=wring] Don’t. Say. That. Even in jest. [/QUOTE] Why? She has a tough stance on aliens. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2008, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858/60 "2008-01-04T20:55:19Z")
Well, it doesn’t seem to have done Huckabee any harm in Iowa! Goddamnit, I don’t even want to think about what a Huckabee presidency would be like. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-drives-the-tank/431858.md?page=4)