# Huckabee Gets the Willie Horton Treatment **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 12, 2008, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285 "2008-01-12T15:19:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/1 "2008-01-12T15:19:26Z")
From Friday’s [Kansas City Star](http://www.kansascity.com/news/politics/story/441253.html): > [@](#): > > A new 60-second ad sponsored by a group called Victims Voice made its debut on cable TV [in South Carolina] Thursday night. It features Lois Davidson of Adrian, Mo., whose daughter, Carol Sue Shields, was murdered in the Kansas City area in 2000. > > Davidson and others say that Huckabee played an important role in the 1999 release of Shields’ killer — a convicted rapist named Wayne DuMond — from an Arkansas prison. > > * * * > > Victims Voice is a 527 nonprofit committee, based in Arkansas. Its director, Keith Emis, said the ad wasn’t intended to support any candidate but to “educate the public on Mike Huckabee’s record.” Sound familiar? One can find several ways to discuss this story. What I want to do here is to pit those monkeys who haven’t the _cojones_ to sign their names to their shit-flinging. Once again someone running for _public_ office gets the treatment from someone hiding behind the _anonimity_ of a front group. “Well, gee, we aren’t supporting a particular candidate!” No shit, Nimrod. But in attacking one candidate you implicitly support others. And I have no doubt that whoever is financing this _does_ support a particular candidate. If you’re going to go after someone, common decency demands that you own up to what you are doing, _not_ be a pusillanimous puss and hide behind a 527 committee. Dickless worms. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/2 "2008-01-12T15:30:33Z")
And the Republican establishment makes its move. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/3 "2008-01-12T15:56:00Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] And the Republican establishment makes its move. [/QUOTE] Who _is_ Rove working for these days? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/4 "2008-01-12T16:15:25Z")
And this is just the primaries to determine who in their _own party_ is going to run. Remember the hosing of McCain, who, after being mercilessly smeared by the Bush thugs, went back to lick his boots like a good dog? Just wait to see what crawls out of the ooze to attack the Dem candidate of choice. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/5 "2008-01-12T16:22:55Z")
[QUOTE=BJMoose] What I want to do here is to pit those monkeys who haven’t the _cojones_ to sign their names to their shit-flinging. [/QUOTE] You have a name, Keith Emis. I do think Huckabee need to come clean on Dumond. The parole was a clusterfuck. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/6 "2008-01-12T16:35:09Z")
I don’t really think this is comparable to Horton. [This has wrinkles that Horton did not.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/04/documents-expose-huckabee_n_75362.html) > [@](#): > > In 1996, as a newly elected governor who had received strong support from the Christian right, Huckabee was under intense pressure from conservative activists to pardon Dumond or commute his sentence. The activists claimed that Dumond’s initial imprisonment and various other travails were due to the fact that Ashley Stevens, the high school cheerleader he had raped, was a distant cousin of Bill Clinton, and the daughter of a major Clinton campaign contributor. > > The case for Dumond’s innocence was championed in Arkansas by Jay Cole, a Baptist minister and radio host who was a close friend of the Huckabee family. It also became a cause for New York Post columnist Steve Dunleavy, who repeatedly argued for Dumond’s release, calling his conviction “a travesty of justice.” On Sept. 21, 1999, Dunleavy wrote a column headlined “Clinton’s Biggest Crime - Left Innocent Man In Jail For 14 Years”: > > “Dumond, now 52, was given conditional parole yesterday in Arkansas after having being sentenced to 50 years in jail for the rape of Clinton’s cousin,” Dunleavy wrote. “That rape never happened.” > > A subsequent Dunleavy column quoted Huckabee saying: “There is grave doubt to the circumstances of this reported crime.” > > After Dumond’s release from prison in September 1999, he moved to Smithville, Missouri, where he raped and suffocated to death a 39-year-old woman named Carol Sue Shields. Dumond was subsequently convicted and sentenced to life in prison for that rape and murder. The fundies pushed Huckabee to let this guy go because the victim was distantly related to Bill Clinton. That bespeaks an underlying sickness and deranged partisanship that was lacking from anything Dukakis ever did. ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/7 "2008-01-12T18:18:32Z")
[QUOTE=The Flying Dutchman] You have a name, Keith Emis. I do think Huckabee need to come clean on Dumond. The parole was a clusterfuck. [/QUOTE] Yeah, but who the hell is Keith Emis?? Google gives me 588 hits for his name. Geez, man, I get more than 5000 hits for “BJMoose”, and I don’t think any of them are about me! (Don’t get me wrong - I believe all these hits refer to the right guy. This just seems to be his only claim to fame ever.) Emis is just a cat’s paw. I wanna know who’s hiding behind a 29-year-old paper salesman. Come out, come out, whoever you are, you gnats asses. . . . ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/8 "2008-01-12T18:26:25Z")
Nobody really has to be behind this, this story was out and about before Huckleberry was even a viable candidate, it was already a known thing, but not being an important candidate, no one made him answer, stonewalling cost him nothing. Not any more. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/9 "2008-01-12T18:38:55Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The fundies pushed Huckabee to let this guy go because the victim was distantly related to Bill Clinton. That bespeaks an underlying sickness and deranged partisanship that was lacking from anything Dukakis ever did. [/QUOTE] A somewhat less provocative way of putting it is that they were predisposed to believe his conviction was invalid (due to being politically motivated) because the victim was distantly related to Bill Cliinton. It doesn’t make them look any better, but at least we’re not inviting an interpretation that they thought it shouldn’t be against the law to rape a Democrat’s relatives… ---
**Author:** ![BJMoose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5fc32e/32.png) [@BJMoose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BJMoose)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/10 "2008-01-12T22:40:54Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Nobody really has to be behind this, this story was out and about before Huckleberry was even a viable candidate, it was already a known thing, but not being an important candidate, no one made him answer, stonewalling cost him nothing. Not any more. [/QUOTE] I think you missed the point. The story and its possible merits are not at issue here. What gets my goat, wolverine, hamster and pet pterodactyl is that the matter is fodder for TV ads now running in South Carolina (shades of the “push polls” used against John McCain there eight years ago) sponsored by a group no one had heard of a few weeks back (shades of Swift Boaters for Jesus or whatever they were called). The comparison to the Willie Horton ads has already been made. Or can it be that our own sweet **'luci** has become so jaded that anonymous smear campaigns don’t get a rise out of him? :eek: (If so, I now fear for our Republic!) ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/11 "2008-01-12T22:43:31Z")
Is it a smear campaign if it’s essentially true? Willie Horton was a smear campaign because Dukakis had nothing to do with instituting the furlough program, which was in effect before he became governor. Wayne Dumond is not a smear campaign because Huckabee personally pushed to have him paroled, even meeting with the parole board about it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2008, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/12 "2008-01-12T23:24:46Z")
[QUOTE=BJMoose] …Or can it be that our own sweet **'luci** has become so jaded that anonymous smear campaigns don’t get a rise out of him? :eek: (If so, I now fear for our Republic!) [/QUOTE] Had more than a few adjectives applied, but this may be a first. For my two bits, a smear campaign has to be grounded in a falsehood. This whole Drummond thing is as nasty as a sewer snake, but is grounded (best I can tell) in fact. Makes all the difference in the world. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/13 "2008-01-13T00:07:21Z")
As far as Huck goes—live by Conservative talk radio, DIE by Conservative talk radio. As to poor Huck’s misstep in pardoning the loser at the behest of people who think the only import thing in life is “Clinton got a blow job”…, to quote from Animal House > [@](#): > > Hey! You fucked up! You trusted us. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/14 "2008-01-13T01:00:15Z")
[QUOTE=BJMoose] Swift Boaters for Jesus or whatever they were called [/QUOTE] Swift Goat Veterinarians for Truthiness. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/15 "2008-01-13T01:55:07Z")
There are plenty of people in Arkansas that have a legitimate axe to grind over this, most notably, Family and friends of Carol Sue Shields. If they are behind this 527 group, I don’t have a problem with it. Sadly, with the state of politics today, I kinda doubt that is the case. I’m thinking that one if his opponents’ supporters is using it to support their guy. If that’s the case, it’s scummy. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/16 "2008-01-13T01:59:46Z")
[QUOTE=samclem] As far as Huck goes—live by Conservative talk radio, DIE by Conservative talk radio. [/QUOTE] I’ve actually read that Rush and Huckabee have been at odds… The former has called the latter NOT a “true conservative,” and been freely critical of other positions of his at other times. Have there been other hosts who’ve been pushing Huck? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/17 "2008-01-13T02:32:27Z")
I’m not quite sure what the pitting is about. One particular commercial is put out but it is not exactly a dirty trick. This is not anything new. It is a subject that Huckabee has been questioned about many times. It was out during the presidential race long before Iowa. I think he was asked about it at least one of the debates. Of course there was going to be a commercial about it. [QUOTE=Leaper] I’ve actually read that Rush and Huckabee have been at odds… The former has called the latter NOT a “true conservative,” and been freely critical of other positions of his at other times. Have there been other hosts who’ve been pushing Huck? [/QUOTE] Most have been cordial but as far as I know none of the big ones have been pushing Huckabee. Just the opposite in most cases. Mostly because he isn’t very conservative, except on social issues(you know, the things that get everyone riled up about but really mean very little during a presidency). ---
**Author:** ![Rhubarb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Rhubarb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhubarb)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/18 "2008-01-13T04:33:11Z")
[QUOTE=Loach] Mostly because he isn’t very conservative, except on social issues(you know, the things that get everyone riled up about but really mean very little during a presidency). [/QUOTE] Oh, so he’s a social issueist, then. _That_ explains why the 'Pubs are upset with him. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/19 "2008-01-13T04:37:20Z")
[QUOTE=Rhubarb] Oh, so he’s a social issueist, then. _That_ explains why the 'Pubs are upset with him. 😃 [/QUOTE] Nah, the pubs are upset because he’s ONLY a social issues conservative. If he played the whole abortion/homosexuality/Christian-nation dogwhistle thing AND was for the corporatist agenda as well, they’d love him. But his economics are ostensibly populist (though how he can consider a national sales tax in lieu of income tax “populist” I have no idea…a truly populist tax would go even further in the progressive direction than income tax, and be a wealth tax), so the corporatist Republicans (who are the ones who think they’re in charge) have to get rid of him. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2008, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285/20 "2008-01-13T04:46:43Z")
[QUOTE=NurseCarmen] There are plenty of people in Arkansas that have a legitimate axe to grind over this, most notably, Family and friends of Carol Sue Shields. If they are behind this 527 group, I don’t have a problem with it. Sadly, with the state of politics today, I kinda doubt that is the case. I’m thinking that one if his opponents’ supporters is using it to support their guy. If that’s the case, it’s scummy. [/QUOTE] I have less of a problem with it if it’s actually her friends/family who are behind it. Even in that case, though, this seems like a vendetta, and not an appropriate matter for a national campaign. _At worst_ it speaks of an error in judgment for Huckabee; for it to be significant, there would need to be a clear pattern of such errors. More likely, he weighed the evidence and made a decision that turned out, with the benefit of hindsight, to be incorrect. Politics should be, though it often isn’t, about more substantive policy issues. It’s tragic that this woman was murdered, but turning it into a vendetta against the governer is placing the blame for the murder on the wrong shoulders. Not that I like Huckabee. He comes across as a dangerous loon to me. But this issue isn’t a good one. Daniel [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-gets-the-willie-horton-treatment/433285.md?page=2)