# Huckabee hates America **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 10, 2007, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484 "2007-12-10T16:06:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/1 "2007-12-10T16:06:33Z")
[Mike Huckabee speaking last night](http://www.ardemgaz.com/prev/jonesboro/afhuckabee08.asp): > [@](#): > > “I didn’t get into politics because I thought government had a better answer. I got into politics because I knew government didn’t have the real answers, that the real answers lie in accepting Jesus Christ into our lives.” > He compared his entry into politics to “getting inside the dragon’s belly,” adding, “There’s not one thing we can do in those marbled halls and domed capitols that can equal what’s done when Jesus touches the lives of a sinner.” > The most basic unit of government is not the city council, quorum court or state legislature, Huckabee said. “It is Mom and Dad raising kids and teaching them respect for authority, others and God.” > The nation has descended gradually into crisis, Huckabee said, and repairing the damage needs to be gradual, too. He said the solution is simple: faith in Christ. The speech is filled with risible drivel like this. He also passed out anti-Mormon hate literature before the speech (which was given in Salt Lake City!). He’s basically admitting that he wants to replace secular government with Jesus, is he not? If that’s not what he means, then what _does_ he mean? Why so much overt hostility towards the American state? Why does he hate the Constitution. People actually take this scumbag seriously as a candidate? Why? This is a guy who campaigned to free a rapist (who committed another rape and murder once he got out) [simply because the rapist’s victim was a distant relative of Bill Clinton’s](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/12/04/documents-expose-huckabee_n_75362.html). He’s openly theocratic in his speeches. He thinks there were dinosaurs on the Ark. This guy is even more dangerous and vicious than Bush, and possibly just as stupid (a high hurdle, I know). Does anyone want to defend this guy or explain why he gets a pass on his nutjobbery from the media. Howard Dean had one awkward “woo hoo” at a rally and the media played it over and over again and attacked him as some kind of unstable psychotic, yet no amount of anti-American, barking-at-the-moon, religious lunacy from Republicans ever gets a word of criticism. Does anyone want to defend this idiot, Huckabee or explain why he gets any mainstream popular support at all. Has the conservative base really strayed that far from American principles? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/2 "2007-12-10T16:13:54Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] He also passed out anti-Mormon hate literature before the speech (which was given in Salt Lake City!). [/QUOTE] Does your cite back up that statement? I find it hard to believe that he, personally, did that. I kind of agree with the overall assessment, though. He comes across as very sincere, and very likeable, but if you listen to what he’s actually saying it’s pretty scary. Is he trying to be Commander-In-Chief or Preacher-In-Chief? And calling himself the “Christian Candidate” is down right unAmerican. The implication, of course, is that the other candidates aren’t “Christian”. As he rises in the polls, let’s hope he gets more media attention shining some light on the ugly side of this message. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/3 "2007-12-10T16:15:10Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] The speech is filled with risible drivel like this. [/QUOTE] Fuck you. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/4 "2007-12-10T16:19:01Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Fuck you. [/QUOTE] What do you think I’m saying that’s hostile to you? My issues are not with Huckabee’s religious beliefs but with his overtly stated desire to institutionalize them as state policy. If a politician said he got into politics because he wanted to wipe out Chrsitianity, how would you feel? Why don’t you actually read what I quoted from Huckabee before jerking your knee. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/5 "2007-12-10T16:24:14Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Does your cite back up that statement? I find it hard to believe that he, personally, did that. [/QUOTE] From the article: > [@](#): > > Other books given to reporters at the convention Sunday included a how-to boycott book aimed at the Walt Disney Co. by Richard D. Land titled Sending a Message to Mickey: The ABC’s of Making Your Voice Heard at Disney. The back cover features an outline of the famous mouse’s round ears and the words: “He who has ears, let him hear.” > **The other book was Mormonism Unmasked by R. Philip Roberts, who examines the beliefs of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.** ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/6 "2007-12-10T16:28:28Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] What do you think I’m saying that’s hostile to you? My issues are not with Huckabee’s religious beliefs but with his overtly stated desire to institutionalize them as state policy. [/quote] He stated no such desire. What pisses me off is the double standard demanded by some atheists. You can “fundie” this and “sky pixie” that, ridiculing every aspect of a person’s faith. But as soon as someone steps up and says that Christ is the solution to the world’s problems, you roar about your perceived oppression and the institutionalization of religion. Huckabee didn’t say he was going to require people to go to church in the manner that Hillary said she was going to take people’s property from them, and you don’t have one damn complaint about her. And when I did complain about a militant atheist who was using his daughter to carry out his personal agenda, where the hell were you with your support for my position? So, fuck it. I’ve been willing to go to bat for you people in real life, explaining how you’re moral and good and decent and all that. But then you have to fucking scream every time somebody mentions Jesus. And in your case, not only that, but you have to pull up “scholars” (meaning people who agree with you) to show how the Jesus they worship isn’t even real. So yes. Fuck you. I’ve had enough of it. And while we’re at it — Huffington as a cite? You want Coulter as a counter-cite? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/7 "2007-12-10T16:33:45Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] From the article: [/QUOTE] Given out at the convention. He was an attendee, not an organizer of the convention. Huckabee may have been behind the effort to hand out that material, but the article doesn’t give any evidence to support that claim. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/8 "2007-12-10T16:40:37Z")
I’m afraid **Diogenes** is quite wrong. He left out in his OP that Huckabee was speaking to a group of pastors (of which, of course, he is one). It fell to us to discover that by heading to the link. Now, it hardly needs to be said that politicians tailor their speeches to their audience. Proof of that is in this speech [by President Clinton to a group of black preachers in 1993:](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE4D8113BF937A25752C1A965958260) > [@](#): > > I guess what I really want to say to you today, my fellow Americans, is that we can do all of this and still fail unless we meet the great crisis of the spirit that is gripping America today. When I leave you, Congressman Ford and I are going to a Baptist Church near here to a town meeting he’s having on health care and violence. I tell you, unless we do something about crime and violence and drugs that is ravaging the community, we will not be able to repair this country. > > If Martin Luther King, who said, “Like Moses, I am on the mountaintop and I can see the Promised Land, but I’m not going to be able to get there with you. But we will get there.” If he were reappear by my side today and give us a report card on the last 25 years, what would he say? “You did a good job,” he would say – voting and electing people who formerly were not electable because of the color of their skin. You have more political power – and that is good. You did a good job," he would say, "letting people who have the ability to do so, live wherever they want to live, go wherever they want to go in this great country. > > “You did a good job,” he would say, “elevating people of color into the ranks of the United States armed forces to the very top or into the very top of our Government. You did a very good job,” he would say. He would say, “did a good job creating a Black middle class of people who really are doing well, and the middle class is growing more among African Americans than among non-African Americans. You did a good job. You did a good job in opening opportunity.” > > But he would say, “I did not live and die to see the American family destroyed. I did not live and die to see 13-year-old boys get automatic weapons and gun down 9-year-olds just for the kick of it. I did not live and die to see young people destroy their own lives with drugs and then build fortunes destroying the lives of others. That is not what I came here to do. I fought for freedom,” he would say, "but not for the freedom of people to kill each other with reckless abandonment, not for the freedom of children to have children and the fathers of the children to walk away from them and abandon them, as if they don’t amount to anything. > > “I fought for people to have the right to work, but not to have whole communities and people abandoned. This is not what I lived and died for, my fellow Americans,” he would say. “I fought to stop white people from being so filled with hate that they would wreak violence on black people. I did not fight for the right of black people to murder other black people with reckless abandonment.” Now, I won’t go so far as to call the speeches interchangeable. They aren’t. But clearly they spring from a similar place in the American political tradition, and given the makeup of the audience, not out of place at all. Catch Huckabee at any forum, and clearly he is quite modest and realistic both about what he intends to do with his faith and what he expects from believers. And while I don’t intend to vote for him in the primaries, the caricature being drawn of him is laughable at times. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/9 "2007-12-10T16:41:20Z")
Lib? You okay? The terse rejoinder does suggest it might be time for a week or two off now. Office being a pain? ---
**Author:** ![SnakesCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4af34b/32.png) [@SnakesCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakesCatLady)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/10 "2007-12-10T16:44:27Z")
I will admit that kind of speech scares me. I am a good citizen - I have a job and pay taxes, I own a house a pay propery taxes on it and have an interest in another property I pay taxes on. I don’t have a criminal record. I show up for jury duty as requested. I am not a Christian. Worse, in the eyes of many Christians, I am a Pagan. I am not criticizing Huckabee’s beliefs. I do, however, question his understanding of “separation of Church and State”. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/11 "2007-12-10T16:45:28Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] He stated no such desire. [/quote] What did he mean by saying he got into politics because the government had no answers and that “accepting Jesus” was the answer? If that’s not theocratic, what is it? > [@](#): > > What pisses me off is the double standard demanded by some atheists. You can “fundie” this and “sky pixie” that, ridiculing every aspect of a person’s faith. But as soon as someone steps up and says that Chris is the solution to the world’s problems, you roar about your perceived oppression and the institutionalization of religion. No I don’t. I only have a problem with it when they want to insert it into politics. > [@](#): > > Huckabee didn’t say he was going to require people to go to church What did he mean by saying that the country’s problems can only be addressed by Jesus and not by the government? If that’s the case, then why is he running for President? > [@](#): > > in the manner that Hillary said she was going to take people’s property from them, and you don’t have one damn complaint about her. I don’t know what this refers to (taxes? guns?) but the Constutution does not forbid the government from collecting taxes or regulating guns, so why would I have a problem with that? > [@](#): > > And when I did complain about a militant atheist who was using his daughter to carry out his personal agenda, where the hell were you with your support for my position? He was right. You were wrong. he was defending himself and his daughter and YOU against government theocracy. You should be grateful. > [@](#): > > So, fuck it. I’ve been willing to go to bat for you people in real life, explaining how you’re moral and good and decent and all that. But then you have to fucking scream every time somebody mentions Jesus. This is a lie in my case. > [@](#): > > And in your case, not only that, but you have to pull up “scholars” (meaning people who agree with you) to show how the Jesus they worship isn’t even real. So yes. Fuck you. I’ve had enough of it. Here you go with your puling about Biblical scholarship again. It isn’t just “people I agree with.” It doesn’t work that way. There’s mainstream scholarship (and I seldom stray from the mainstream) and there’s non-scholarly (i.e.. non-credentialed, non-peer-reviewed) apologia. You want me to accept the latter as equivalent to the former. That’s ridiculous. > [@](#): > > And while we’re at it — Huffington as a cite? You want Coulter as a counter-cite? Huffington posted the documents. Do you think they fabricated them? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/12 "2007-12-10T16:52:18Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] I’m afraid **Diogenes** is quite wrong He left out in his OP that Huckabee was speaking to a group of pastors (of which, of course, he is one). It fell to us to discover that by heading to the link. [/quote] His audience is irrelevant. It’s no less stupid to express an insane theocratic agenda to Baptist Pastors than to Rotarians. > [@](#): > > Now, it hardly needs to be said that politicians tailor their speeches to their audience. Proof of that is in this speech [by President Clinton to a group of black preachers in 1993:](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE4D8113BF937A25752C1A965958260) > > Now, I won’t go so far as to call the speeches interchangeable. They aren’t. But clearly they spring from a similar place in the American political tradition, and given the makeup of the audience, not out of place at all. I can’t see any comparison at all. Clinton did not disparage the ideal of a secular state in that speech, or express any unconstitutional opinions as Huckabee did. > [@](#): > > Catch Huckabee at any forum, and clearly he is quite modest and realistic both about what he intends to do with his faith and what he expects from believers. And while I don’t intend to vote for him in the primaries, the caricature being drawn of him is laughable at times. Why did he say that he got into politics because Jesus has answers and the government doesn’t? What does Jesus have to do with running for office? If the government has no answers than why does he want to be part of it? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/13 "2007-12-10T16:57:09Z")
What Huckabee needs to realize is that there are some problems that are best left to Jesus and some problems that are best left to the government. The government isn’t go to get me into heaven and Jesus isn’t going to deliver my mail. This sounds obvious. But if you’re picking a Postmaster General you look for who’s best at delivering the mail not who’s the best Christian. And if you’re picking a President you look for who’s best at running the government not who’s the best Christian. Huckabee’s not running for the office of Pastor-in-Chief. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/14 "2007-12-10T17:03:03Z")
I have no problem with him talking about religion as it relates to his own personal development. But if Jesus is the answer, what of those who don’t accept Jesus? And what of those who accept him, but in different way than Huckabee does. When he calls himself “the Christian Candidate”, he steps over the line, in my book. As Krauthammer pointed out in an editorial last week, wouldn’t there be outrage in the US if he were, for example, running against someone who is Jewish? I don’t think he wants to establish a theocracy, but he’s dragging way too much religion into his candidacy. Not just with lots of references to God (or Jesus), but his seemingly exclusive reliance on Christ as the source of the answers. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/15 "2007-12-10T17:05:33Z")
[QUOTE=Little Nemo] What Huckabee needs to realize is that there are some problems that are best left to Jesus and some problems that are best left to the government. The government isn’t go to get me into heaven and Jesus isn’t going to deliver my mail. [/QUOTE] But that’s exactly what he did say. Dio even quoted him and re-iterated it. Government ~(answers) :: Jesus (answers). How much more split apart could they possibly be? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/16 "2007-12-10T17:07:29Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] Lib? You okay? The terse rejoinder does suggest it might be time for a week or two off now. Office being a pain? [/QUOTE] All Huckabee did was tell a bunch of fellow Christian pastors how much he loves Jesus. Given that Dio pitted this, why don’t you ask him if his office is being a pain? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/17 "2007-12-10T17:11:00Z")
I’m sure this was an honest mistake, but why did you say Huckabee spoke last night and link an article nearly ten years old, **Diogenes**? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/18 "2007-12-10T17:12:59Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] But that’s exactly what he did say. Dio even quoted him and re-iterated it. Government ~(answers) :: Jesus (answers). How much more split apart could they possibly be? [/QUOTE] No, he said he got into politics BECAUSE only Jesus could solve problems, not the government. There is no way to parse that except to conclude that he wants to replace the secular state with Jesus. If you disagree, please tell me what he DID mean. If the government has no ansers, then why does he want to be part of it and what does Jesus have to do with. How dooes it make sense to say you want to be part of a secular governement because you think your religion has the answers. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/19 "2007-12-10T17:14:50Z")
From the linked article in the OP: > [@](#): > > This article was published on Monday, June 8, 1998. Lots of references in there as well to Jonesboro. Real timely. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/20 "2007-12-10T17:15:54Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] I’m sure this was an honest mistake, but why did you say Huckabee spoke last night and link an article nearly ten years old, **Diogenes**? [/QUOTE] I live in CA, but I usually start off my morning by reading an article written in the 1990s in an Arkansas newspaper. Don’t you? 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484.md?page=2)