# Huckabee hates America **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 10, 2007, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484 "2007-12-10T16:06:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![ArizonaTeach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/45deac/32.png) [@ArizonaTeach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArizonaTeach)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/41 "2007-12-10T18:08:09Z")
Never mind…answered. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/42 "2007-12-10T18:12:00Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Yet identical remarks by Democrats either sail completely under their radar or, if they are noticed, are explained and excused away. [/QUOTE] What identical remarks? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/43 "2007-12-10T18:13:19Z")
Just for grins, I’m going to post the first few paragraphs of Obama’s announcement that he was running for the nomination: > [@](#): > > Thank you so much. Praise and honor to God for bringing us together today. Thank you so much. I am so grateful to see all of you. > > Let me begin by saying thanks to all of you who’ve traveled, from far and wide, to brave the cold today. > > I’m fired up. > > We all made this journey for a reason. It’s humbling to see a crowd like this , but in my heart I know you didn’t come here just for me. No, you came here because you believe in what this country can be. In the face of war, you believe there can be peace. In the face of despair, you believe there can be hope. In the face of a politics that’s shut you out, that’s told you to settle, that’s divided us for too long, you believe that we can be one people, reaching for what’s possible, building that more perfect union. > > That’s the journey we’re on today. But let me tell you how I came to be here. As most of you know, I am not a native of this great state. I moved to Illinois over two decades ago. I was a young man then, just a year out of college; I knew no one in Chicago when I arrived, was without money or family connections. But a group of churches had offered me a job as a community organizer for the grand sum of $13,000 a year. And I accepted the job, sight unseen, motivated then by a single, simple, powerful idea — that I might play a small part in building a better America. > > My work took me to some of Chicago’s poorest neighborhoods. I joined with pastors and lay-people to deal with communities that had been ravaged by plant closings. I saw that the problems people faced weren’t simply local in nature — that the decision to close a steel mill was made by distant executives; that the lack of textbooks and computers in schools could be traced to the skewed priorities of politicians a thousand miles away; and that when a child turns to violence, I came to realize that there’s a hole in that boy’s heart no government could ever fill. > > It was in these neighborhoods that I received the best education I ever had, and where I learned the meaning of my Christian faith. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/44 "2007-12-10T18:13:27Z")
Hey! This is evidence of Huckabee’s real prophetic powers! The anti-Mormon literature must be evidence that he foresaw the Romney candidacy! Funny thing is- I’m torn between them both. I have genuine concerns about Huckabee’s involvement in the rapist’s parole & his taxation policies as Gov, and about Romney’s genuine conservatism, but otherwise, I could go for either one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/45 "2007-12-10T18:16:08Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Funny as this is, it points to a huge double standard. **Diogenes** and his ilk will go completely nuts when Huckabeee, or indeed any Republican, makes a speech like this. Yet identical remarks by Democrats either sail completely under their radar or, if they are noticed, are explained and excused away. [/quote] If you can show me a Democrat making similar theocratic overtures, I’ll peel the skin off them. I’m not a Democrat anyway. > [@](#): > > Barack Obama has been making quite explicit references to his faith in his campaign - and I haven’t heard a word of protest about it around here. I don’t have a problem with anyone making references to their faith. I don’t care about their private religious beliefs at all. I don’t care that Romney is a Mormon. I only get bothered when they start trying to insert it into the state. > [@](#): > > Now, I wouldn’t say Obama should be criticized for this - these kinds of remarks are entirely in keeping with traditional American political rhetoric. But that of course means that these kinds of remarks by a Republican are equally innocuous. I don’t complain about similar remarks by Republicans. Huckabee’s speech went further than just an expression of faith. > [@](#): > > Now, the extent religion affects policy is a legitimate basis for debate. Which is all I’m complaining about with Huckabee. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/46 "2007-12-10T18:16:44Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] What identical remarks? [/QUOTE] The remarks that \*\*Dio \*\* thought Huckabee made last night but were really made ten years ago and the remarks that \*\*Dio \*\* thought Huckabee made as well but were really made by Bill Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/47 "2007-12-10T18:16:55Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] What identical remarks? [/QUOTE] My position above was that Huckabee’s remarks to pastors in 1998 weren’t different in tone or substance, really, to those by Clinton to pastors in 1993. Both men pointed to the limits of government power in addressing the needs of the human heart. Now, surely Huckabee stressed government’s failure in this area more than Clinton did, but these remarks aren’t terribly different. Nor do either of them indicate any sort of constitutional confusion, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/48 "2007-12-10T18:25:03Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] My position above was that Huckabee’s remarks to pastors in 1998 weren’t different in tone or substance, really, to those by Clinton to pastors in 1993. Both men pointed to the limits of government power in addressing the needs of the human heart. Now, surely Huckabee stressed government’s failure in this area more than Clinton did, but these remarks aren’t terribly different. Nor do either of them indicate any sort of constitutional confusion, IMHO. [/QUOTE] I’m genuinely confused as to how you see any similarity between the quote in the OP, and the quote you gave from Clinton. They’re not remotely alike. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/49 "2007-12-10T18:30:35Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Just for grins, I’m going to post the first few paragraphs of Obama’s announcement that he was running for the nomination: [/QUOTE] You’re not very good at this. Obama praises God once and says a group of churches hired him as an organizer years ago. Huckabee says “I got into politics because I knew government didn’t have the real answers, that the real answers lie in accepting Jesus Christ into our lives.” That sounds the same to you? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/50 "2007-12-10T18:31:27Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] I’m genuinely confused as to how you see any similarity between the quote in the OP, and the quote you gave from Clinton. They’re not remotely alike. [/QUOTE] \*\*Moto \*\*doesn’t understand **DtC** ’s criticism. He thinks it has something to do with the general invocation of faith. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/51 "2007-12-10T18:35:48Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] I’m genuinely confused as to how you see any similarity between the quote in the OP, and the quote you gave from Clinton. They’re not remotely alike. [/QUOTE] They’re similar. They’re both saying that the problems of violence in the society can’t be solved by government action, but instead require, in Clinton’s case, a general reaching “to the values, the spirit, the soul, and the truth of human nature”, and in Huckabee’s case, a more specific “accepting Jesus Christ into our lives”. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Arky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@An\_Arky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Arky)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/52 "2007-12-10T18:36:09Z")
Jesus wept at the trainwreck. Huckabee is, I think, the candidate most likely to push the envelope of seperation of church and state. I would be leery that as a result, there would be more restrictions on _individual liberties_. BTW, Huckabee did the eulogy at my grandfather’s funeral nearly 25 years ago, when he was a preacher. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/53 "2007-12-10T18:39:27Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] They’re similar. They’re both saying that the problems of violence in the society can’t be solved by government action, but instead require, in Clinton’s case, a general reaching “to the values, the spirit, the soul, and the truth of human nature”, and in Huckabee’s case, a more specific “accepting Jesus Christ into our lives”. [/QUOTE] There is a crucial difference between believing that social factors play a key role in the success of government policies, and believing that government is impotent and that only faith in Christ can give it power. One is nearly axiomatic, the other is drivel and entirely improper. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/54 "2007-12-10T18:40:02Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] What identical remarks? [/QUOTE] Indeed. Clinton never said that the solution could be found in Jesus. He talked about spiritual values, which almost anyone can relate to. Is it really that hard to differentiate between invoking the Divine and invoking Jesus? The latter is exclusive, and the former is vague enough that even an atheist like myself is not particular put off. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/55 "2007-12-10T18:42:34Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing] They’re similar. They’re both saying that the problems of violence in the society can’t be solved by government action, but instead require, in Clinton’s case, a general reaching “to the values, the spirit, the soul, and the truth of human nature”, and in Huckabee’s case, a more specific “accepting Jesus Christ into our lives”. [/QUOTE] So, there similiar in that neither of them believes that government is a universal panacea, a position held by (at a conservative estimate) 99.99% of everyone on the planet. I guess you could also say that they’re similar in that they were both sentiments uttered by white men living in North America in the 20th century, but I’m not entirely sure how valuable that insight really is. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/56 "2007-12-10T18:47:28Z")
[QUOTE=Richard Parker] \*\*Moto \*\*doesn’t understand **DtC** ’s criticism. He thinks it has something to do with the general invocation of faith. [/QUOTE] You are right… **Mr. Moto** is not getting it, and I don’t think **Liberal** is, either. Let’s face it, they ALL like to talk about how much they love God, and it’s really tough to tell how sincere it all is, so I usually ignore this kind of talk. But this part of Huckabee’s quote is a little disturbing: “I didn’t get into politics because I thought government had a better answer. I got into politics because I knew government didn’t have the real answers, that the real answers lie in accepting Jesus Christ into our lives.” Not sure what he means by this, exactly, but it doesn’t sound good. He may have the opinion that we all need to “accept Jesus Christ into our lives,” and that opinion doesn’t bother me too much. But the question in my mind is…what does it have to do with _why he went into politics_? What is he planning to do with his sojurn into politics to “fix” this situation and make everyone accept Jesus Christ into their lives? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/57 "2007-12-10T18:48:51Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Indeed. Clinton never said that the solution could be found in Jesus. He talked about spiritual values, which almost anyone can relate to. Is it really that hard to differentiate between invoking the Divine and invoking Jesus? The latter is exclusive, and the former is vague enough that even an atheist like myself is not particular put off. [/QUOTE] Well, I agree. But note that Huckabee is a pastor and was speaking to pastors. Now, when clergymen of the same denomination get together, do they speak of the Divine in general terms? I agree that the speech is exclusionary more than need be. However, I also note that it is ten years old, it was delivered to a very specific audience, and Huckabee’s recent remarks on religion have shown a far different tone. That, plus the fact that similar remarks are made all of the time, moves this into non-event territory for me. ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/58 "2007-12-10T18:52:16Z")
I think Dio should read more and run off at the mouth…errr…fingers less. Its taking multiple persons to bail out the ignorance he’s pouring into this thread. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/59 "2007-12-10T18:52:44Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] Well, I agree. But note that Huckabee is a pastor and was speaking to pastors. [/quote] I’m not concerned so much with that individual speech, but rather with the whole tone of how his Christian faith seems to inform his politics. Are you not bothered by someone who claims to be “the Christian Candidate”? What does that mean to someone who isn’t a Christian? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2007, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484/60 "2007-12-10T18:56:07Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I’m not concerned so much with that individual speech, but rather with the whole tone of how his Christian faith seems to inform his politics. Are you not bothered by someone who claims to be “the Christian Candidate”? What does that mean to someone who isn’t a Christian? [/QUOTE] And what’s more, what does it mean about all the other candidates, all of whom are Christians of one stripe or another? I hate all of this “WE are Christians, YOU are not” BS. (Although, I must admit, I have a hard time with Mormonism being billed as a Christian religion, but I’m not going to blame Mitt Romney for that.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hates-america/429484.md?page=4)