# Huckabee hides his sermons **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 28, 2007, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509 "2007-12-28T19:26:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/81 "2007-12-30T15:30:47Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] Meh. Put me in the camp that suspects that most of the sermons were trashed, long ago, when some other minister took over his pulpit, (assuming there was ever a serious record, to begin with), and that the rest are “not available” because some minimum wage drudge in the church office does not think it is worth her time to wander around for six hours in the dust of the parish basement looking for the (probably poorly marked) decaying cardboard box that holds his Christmas and Easter sermons. [/QUOTE] That’s not what the Huckster’s saying, though. If he was saying “I never bothered to keep copies of my sermons, and I doubt my church still has many of them after all this time, but as AFAIAC you’re welcome to pay the secretary to look for them, and I’ll ask them to make any sermons of mine they find publicly available,” I’d be perfectly OK with that. Instead, Huckabee’s campaign is simply saying that they’re “not able to accommodate” requests for his sermons. The pastor’s assistant at one of his churches indicates that while much of the material from Huck’s days as pastor there have been destroyed, the rest isn’t available to the press. Big difference, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/82 "2007-12-30T19:20:03Z")
So don’t vote for him then. I don’t think it is right that he shields his sermons either, but between Article VI and the First Amendment, I don’t think there’s much you can do except for punishing him politically. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/83 "2007-12-30T19:49:08Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Instead, Huckabee’s campaign is simply saying that they’re “not able to accommodate” requests for his sermons. The pastor’s assistant at one of his churches indicates that while much of the material from Huck’s days as pastor there have been destroyed, the rest isn’t available to the press. Big difference, IMHO. [/QUOTE] I did not say that he claims to have not kept them. I see a person not trained in PR (particularly presidential level PR) trying to deal with a request they neither understand not care about and the people who are expected to make that public using language that tries to stay neutral–neither “we can’t be bothered to impose on this person” nor “you don’t have a right to ask for them,” but the neutral “we are unable to accommodate your request.” I do not see a “big difference” between the statements that have you so worked up and my imagined scenario. There is more than enough to hang Huckabee in the statements that he makes daily during the campaign that I just see this as overkill. If you want to know how he would act as president, look at how he acted as governor. On the one hand, he got his shorts in a wad over a legal expression that is older than the republic; on the other hand, I have not heard that kids in Arkansas are required to accept Jesus as their personal savior to graduate from high school. Somewhere in the middle are his actual public actions and this is a distracting sideshow. _::: shrug :::_ ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2007, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/84 "2007-12-30T21:06:52Z")
The thing is, I am a little disturbed by the implications of even the request. We could learn an awful lot about how Romney would behave in the Oval Office if we could see some of the transcripts or personal recollections of his meetings at Bain Consulting or Bain Capital. That, however, doesn’t give us the automatic right to see all of these records, does it? I mentioned military records above - these seem relevant as well. And we routinely now see a candidate’s grades being discussed. What should be off limits? ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/85 "2007-12-31T20:59:58Z")
[QUOTE=Giraffe] While I do think any public statements a candidate has made in the past should be available for voters to use to assess him/her as a whole, I don’t think sermons delivered in person to a single church qualify as public statements. To me, that’s somewhere in between private and public speech – obviously, the sermons were available to be heard by anyone who wanted to listen, so if a member of the congregation wanted to come forward and paraphrase things that Huckabee said as a minister, I don’t think that would be inappropriate. At the same time, though, remarks intended only for a small, local audience are not significantly different from things you’d say to a group of friends or family. We’ve all said things to friends or family that wouldn’t sound good if they were made public, which is precisely one of the reasons why we value privacy. I don’t think he should be obligated to release them. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Liberal] That’s so sensible that it bears repeating. [/QUOTE] Thirded ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/86 "2007-12-31T21:22:33Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] The thing is, I am a little disturbed by the implications of even the request. We could learn an awful lot about how Romney would behave in the Oval Office if we could see some of the transcripts or personal recollections of his meetings at Bain Consulting or Bain Capital. That, however, doesn’t give us the automatic right to see all of these records, does it? [/QUOTE] Ahhh, yes, that explains all the people clamoring for the legally required opening of the records of his speeches :rolleyes: > [@](#): > > Like I have said before, I’m not a Huckabee supporter, and his faith-based politics aren’t my style. However, they aren’t terribly out of place in American politics, and certainly aren’t so far from the norm in either party to deserve special scorn. I’m glad you think his positions are not very far from the norm: certainly there can be no harm in releasing the content of the speeches? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/87 "2007-12-31T21:32:50Z")
[QUOTE=Ludovic] I’m glad you think his positions are not very far from the norm: certainly there can be no harm in releasing the content of the speeches? [/QUOTE] I said as much, didn’t I? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/88 "2007-12-31T21:33:56Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] That, however, doesn’t give us the automatic right to see all of these records, does it? [/QUOTE] It isn’t a matter of legal right, or even necessarily custom. A candidate’s role is to try to win our _trust_. If he’s hiding something significant, or just appearing to, he’s hurting _himself_, not us. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/89 "2007-12-31T21:43:51Z")
So again, don’t vote for him. If you feel that this action has caused you not to trust Huckabee, and if you are eligible to vote in a Republican primary and choose to do so (big ifs, here) don’t vote for him. I said above that this was damaging to his campaign to some degree, and I said that that was fair. I can’t make him electable - I have little interest in doing so. And I suspect the rest of you care far less. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/90 "2007-12-31T21:51:16Z")
I care very much, **Moto** , oh, yes, indeedy. There is some comfort in living this close to the Canadian border, but not that much. And if I can dissuade an otherwise reasonable Pubbie from supporting him, then somewhere in Heaven a bell will ring and an angel will get a puppy. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/91 "2007-12-31T22:04:58Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] If he’s hiding something significant, or just appearing to, he’s hurting _himself_, not us. [/QUOTE] That’s the kind of arrogant guy he is, be in tornado relief, concentration camp jokes, ridiculing minimum wage supporters, or sermons. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/92 "2007-12-31T22:07:42Z")
It’s not arrogance, it’s just being sure God has anointed him above other men. Bush Disease, ya know. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/93 "2007-12-31T22:09:14Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] So again, don’t vote for him. [/QUOTE] So can we therefore expect that you will have nothing critical to say about the Democratic candidates between now and November 2008, no matter what surfaces about any of them? If something negative comes to your attention, all you need do is not vote for the candidate(s) in question. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2007, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/94 "2007-12-31T23:11:36Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] The thing is, I am a little disturbed by the implications of even the request. We could learn an awful lot about how Romney would behave in the Oval Office if we could see some of the transcripts or personal recollections of his meetings at Bain Consulting or Bain Capital. That, however, doesn’t give us the automatic right to see all of these records, does it? I mentioned military records above - these seem relevant as well. And we routinely now see a candidate’s grades being discussed. [/QUOTE] As **Elvis** has already made it clear, it’s not a matter of _right_, automatic or otherwise. You want us to trust you, then show your relevant cards. If a Presidential candidate [says](http://www.buffalobeast.com/122/50mostloathsome2007.html): > [@](#): > > I got into politics because I knew government didn’t have the real answers, that the real answers lie in accepting Jesus Christ into our lives… I hope we answer the alarm clock and take this nation back for Christ. ISTM that he has made his sermons relevant to the discussion. I have no similar curiosity about Romney’s meetings at Bain. If you do, then go ahead and make your case that he should provide minutes, if they are available to him. If you don’t, then don’t. Gotta admit, I’ve totally missed out on the discussion of candidates’ school grades. OTOH, one should assume by now that the matter of a candidate’s military service - or how and why he didn’t serve - will be asked about. (You guys started that one, thanks.) > [@](#): > > So again, don’t vote for him. > > If you feel that this action has caused you not to trust Huckabee, and if you are eligible to vote in a Republican primary and choose to do so (big ifs, here) don’t vote for him. I said above that this was damaging to his campaign to some degree, and I said that that was fair. > > I can’t make him electable - I have little interest in doing so. And I suspect the rest of you care far less. I think you’re missing out on a key component of how this ‘democracy’ thingy is supposed to work. Voting isn’t the beginning and the end of democracy. It doesn’t work by us all living in hermetically sealed boxes between the beginning of a campaign and the time we vote. There’s this freedom-of-speech bit where we get to freely express opinions to or at one another, try to change people’s minds, and all that. It’s an American tradition, I’m glad to say. We on the left DO care about changing people’s minds about the Huckster. (And Rudy, and St. John, and the Mittster…no need to bother with Gramps Thompson anymore, I reckon.) And if nothing else, we who want him to not get elected can introduce each other, in threads like this, to more convincing facts about how nutso he is, and sharpen our arguments about why he shouldn’t be President. I do, quite sincerely and unfacetiously, appreciate the help you provide in this process. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/95 "2008-01-01T02:03:31Z")
[QUOTE=RTFirefly] Gotta admit, I’ve totally missed out on the discussion of candidates’ school grades. OTOH, one should assume by now that the matter of a candidate’s military service - or how and why he didn’t serve - will be asked about. (You guys started that one, thanks.) [/QUOTE] I recall a discussion of both Bush’s and Kerry’s college grades in the last election. As for the military service thing, with Clinton it became somewhat of an issue because there was some evidence that he evaded the draft - this, of course, drew a huge collective yawn from most people, so it wasn’t too much of an issue. Demands for a presidential candidate to release his military records seem to have come first from your camp. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/96 "2008-01-01T02:21:43Z")
And have been resisted only by yours. With good reason, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/97 "2008-01-01T06:13:27Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] I recall a discussion of both Bush’s and Kerry’s college grades in the last election. [/quote] I’m glad you do. As usual, your recollection means zip without a cite; we’ve been around this bend too many times. > [@](#): > > As for the military service thing, with Clinton it became somewhat of an issue because there was some evidence that he evaded the draft - this, of course, drew a huge collective yawn from most people, so it wasn’t too much of an issue. Cite? I recall Rush Lardbutt and others of his ilk making as much of an issue as they could out of Clinton’s conscientious objector status, but I don’t recall any claims that Clinton evaded the draft. Since draft evasion is a Federal crime, it would have been a very big deal indeed. > [@](#): > > Demands for a presidential candidate to release his military records seem to have come first from your camp. You guys made an issue out of Clinton’s 1-O status; we made an issue out of Bush’s hiding out from Vietnam in the TANG, and avoiding even a good chunk of that service, as far as anyone can tell. If you can see much of a difference there, I expect that’s just you. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/98 "2008-01-01T06:17:36Z")
And of course, Bush verbally supported the war he chickened out of. By 2004, this was even more relevant, as he had the courage to send others over to face war, when he hadn’t been brave enough to face up to it himself. Yeah, his military records were relevant. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/99 "2008-01-01T06:30:53Z")
I dunno about how relevent I’d make that. I mean, if the only President who can send people to fight has to be one who has, then doesn’t that make combat veterancy a prerequisite of the Presidency? Dunno if I want to go there. Besides, Kerry made such a big deal out of his military record being fact-based, like that made him special. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2008, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509/100 "2008-01-01T06:37:26Z")
OK, so he went _waaaaay_ over there to fight the VC, and GW waited for them to come to him. Like that’s a big difference. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-hides-his-sermons/431509.md?page=6)