# Huckabee makes a racist appeal in South Carolina and nobody cares **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 22, 2008, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438 "2008-01-22T00:27:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![JohnnieEnigma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/dfb087/32.png) [@JohnnieEnigma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnnieEnigma)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/121 "2008-01-25T22:41:57Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] We heard you the first time. Do you think calling someone a “hick” doesn’t display your own bigotry? [/QUOTE] uh, I don’t really give a fuck. he’s a hick, and I’m sticking to my first post. No regrets. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/122 "2008-01-25T22:48:49Z")
Regarding the flag at the monument, I think it’d be great if they took down the cloth one, and made a much bigger one by inlaying it into the tiles or stones or whatever the floor of the thing is made out of. Then the flag’s defenders could see it on display, and the rest of us could walk on it. Win win! ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/123 "2008-01-25T22:50:55Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Perhaps so. Or perhaps you’re being purposely obtuse to try to score rhetorical points. If you have a real question about what I’ve written, I’ll try to answer it for you. [/QUOTE] Purposely obtuse? That would suggest that I know exactly what you’re talking about, yet am pretending not to. Have I been giving you that impression? Do I know exactly what you mean when you say “Southern pride?” ETA: what is “Southern pride?” ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2008, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/124 "2008-01-25T22:59:55Z")
Really? You have trouble with the concept of Southern pride? Maybe it’s not an act, then. Maybe you are _genuinely_ obtuse. OK: There are a lot of folks who are proud to be Southern. For some of them, the Confederate flag is a symbol of that pride, and a way of identifying themselves as Southerners. Sort of the way someone who’s proud of their Irish ancestry might put an Irish flag decal on their bumper, or wear a “Kiss Me, I’m Irish” T-shirt. ---
**Author:** ![Terrifel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c68b51/32.png) [@Terrifel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terrifel)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/125 "2008-01-26T00:16:29Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Really? You have trouble with the concept of Southern pride? Maybe it’s not an act, then. Maybe you are _genuinely_ obtuse. OK: There are a lot of folks who are proud to be Southern. For some of them, the Confederate flag is a symbol of that pride, and a way of identifying themselves as Southerners. Sort of the way someone who’s proud of their Irish ancestry might put an Irish flag decal on their bumper, or wear a “Kiss Me, I’m Irish” T-shirt. [/QUOTE] Thanks for fighting my obtusity. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/126 "2008-01-26T00:38:50Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] There are a lot of folks who are proud to be Southern. For some of them, the Confederate flag is a symbol of that pride, and a way of identifying themselves as Southerners. Sort of the way someone who’s proud of their Irish ancestry might put an Irish flag decal on their bumper, or wear a “Kiss Me, I’m Irish” T-shirt. [/QUOTE] Where’s the corresponding “northern pride”? Where is the corresponding “southern pride” displayed by black southerners? Why is the symbol these people have latched onto almost the sole potential symbol that would be considered a racist relic? If they picked magnolia blossoms no one would think them racist, but they don’t pick magnolia blossoms (pun not intended). The only time anyone around here would talk about state pride would be if the Buckeyes are doing well. And that’s just the state, not the “north.” Not the “midwest.” Not the “great lakes region.” So, yeah. If someone says, “They just want to show their Southern Pride,” I’m going to think “Why?” and “Pride in what?” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/127 "2008-01-26T00:41:25Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] Where’s the corresponding “northern pride”? [/QUOTE] This, I have to say, is a pretty good point. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/128 "2008-01-26T01:11:34Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] Where’s the corresponding “northern pride”? [/quote] Beats me. Maybe there aren’t enough unifying cultural threads in the North. In the South, we feel a cultural connection. > [@](#): > > Where is the corresponding “southern pride” displayed by black southerners? You think it doesn’t exist? Heh. They don’t express it with the rebel flag, of course, but plenty of black people are proud to be Southern. For some, it may be a love-hate relationship. But the love is there. Have you heard of “Dirty South” (just to cite a quick example of the phenomenon that comes to mind)? [Read on.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_hip_hop#Dirty_South) > [@](#): > > Why is the symbol these people have latched onto almost the sole potential symbol that would be considered a racist relic? If they picked magnolia blossoms no one would think them racist, but they don’t pick magnolia blossoms (pun not intended). Well, therein lies the problem. Unfortunately, the only available emblem of Southern pride is stained by slavery and segregation. It would be nice if there were a symbol all Southerners (of whatever race) could get behind. Hey, I’m on board with the magnolia blossom idea. > [@](#): > > The only time anyone around here would talk about state pride would be if the Buckeyes are doing well. And that’s just the state, not the “north.” Not the “midwest.” Not the “great lakes region.” OK. You don’t have any regional pride. Does that mean we shouldn’t either? Why not? > [@](#): > > So, yeah. If someone says, “They just want to show their Southern Pride,” I’m going to think “Why?” and “Pride in what?” Well, Southerners share 400-year cultural heritage stretching back to Jamestown. Pride in what? Music. (Blues, country, bluegrass, jazz, and rock and roll all have their roots in the South). Food. (Barbecue, fried chicken, brunswick stew, cornbread, fried okra, pecan pie, Cajun food, etc.) Literature. (Twain, Faulkner, O’Connor, Walker, Williams, etc.) Pride in what? Really? Sorry if it irks you that Southerners (of all colors) feel some cohesion and some pride. But we do. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/129 "2008-01-26T01:15:48Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] OK. You don’t have any regional pride. Does that mean we shouldn’t either? Why not? [/QUOTE] Because you have nothing to be proud of. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/130 "2008-01-26T01:25:48Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] Because you have nothing to be proud of. [/QUOTE] Gosh, you win **jsgoddess**. Now I fell all sad. ☹ If only I lived in Ohio with all the cool kids. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/131 "2008-01-26T01:27:01Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] Because you have nothing to be proud of. [/QUOTE] Man, that’s cold. 🙂 @#$%^& simulpost. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/132 "2008-01-26T01:28:26Z")
Oh, you people and your symbols. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/133 "2008-01-26T01:33:14Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] Gosh, you win **jsgoddess**. Now I fell all sad. ☹ If only I lived in Ohio with all the cool kids. [/QUOTE] See, you’re trying to claim that I’m claiming something special for Ohio, when it’s exactly the opposite. Ohio is just a place where I was born. I don’t get to take credit for Neil Armstrong and I don’t get to take the blame for Warren G Harding. As a southerner, you don’t get to take the credit for bbq and you don’t get to take the blame for chattel slavery. It has nothing to do with you at all. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/134 "2008-01-26T01:33:24Z")
[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold] Oh, you people and your symbols. [/QUOTE] [Quiet, you, or we’ll trample a rose or something.](http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/symbols.html) ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/135 "2008-01-26T01:35:24Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant] Man, that’s cold. 🙂 [/QUOTE] I’m not going to give someone kudos for living somewhere. It’s silly. ---
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/136 "2008-01-26T01:38:45Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] Ohio is just a place where I was born. I don’t get to take credit for Neil Armstrong and I don’t get to take the blame for Warren G Harding. As a southerner, you don’t get to take the credit for bbq and you don’t get to take the blame for chattel slavery. It has nothing to do with you at all. [/QUOTE] It’s sad that you feel so disconnected from your culture. We don’t. You talked before about feeling pride in the Buckeyes. Why? I mean, you’re not the one playing the game, right? Do you take pride in being an American? Why? You didn’t write the Declaration of Independence, or storm the beach at Normandy. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/137 "2008-01-26T01:42:04Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] [Quiet, you, or we’ll trample a rose or something.](http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/customs/questions/symbols.html) [/QUOTE] Hey, were it up to me, i’d get rid of the whole shebang. Symbols cause exactly this kind of problem; they stand for not only all the lovely good things, but the nasty horrible things too. Same for patriotism. Much better to just applaud the good and denigrate the bad as it comes. Slightly concerning that the “famous people” list is Churchill, Queen Victoria, and _David Beckham_. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/138 "2008-01-26T01:42:13Z")
I think the reason there’s no such thing as “Northern pride” is pretty much the same reason there’s no such thing as a (legitimate) white pride movement. The black pride movement came into existence as a response to overwhelming anti-black bias in American culture. Similarly, after the war, the was a very strong anti-Southern bias in the country, and many negative stereotypes became associated with the South. Without that strong cultural bias, there’s no particular need to emphasis pride in an aspect of a person that, as **jdgoddess** is arguing, should be pride-neutral. Just as white people have never been the subject of systematic racism, thereby obviating the need for “white pride,” New England has never been on the losing end of a bitter war followed by occupation by a vengeful neighbor. So I think there is some legitimacy in the concept of Southern pride as an antidote to that sort of cultural bias. However, just as the rising political and economic power of the South is invalidating many of those stereotypes, I think the necessity of and attraction to the concept of Southern pride will wane. As appears to be the case, judging by **spoke-**'s take on the current generation of young Southerners. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/139 "2008-01-26T01:44:50Z")
[QUOTE=spoke-] It’s sad that you feel so disconnected from your culture. We don’t. You talked before about feeling pride in the Buckeyes. Why? I mean, you’re not the one playing the game, right? Do you take pride in being an American? Why? You didn’t write the Declaration of Independence, or storm the beach at Normandy. [/QUOTE] I don’t take pride in the Buckeyes. I root against them most of the time because they are in my face. I root against my own alma mater as well because they were in my face. I am a fan of baseball, but there’s no pride in that. I don’t think, “I’m special because I’m a fan of this team. Woooooooo! They won once! WOOOOOOOOO! That makes me AWESOME!” And no, I don’t take pride in being an American. I didn’t choose it. There’s nothing about having a culture that means you have to be “proud” of that culture. It is what it is. You didn’t form it. And like I said, that means you aren’t responsible for the atrocities of your culture either. If you take one, you are damned well getting the other. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2008, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438/140 "2008-01-26T01:53:51Z")
[QUOTE=Miller] So I think there is some legitimacy in the concept of Southern pride as an antidote to that sort of cultural bias. [/QUOTE] Yet it is “Southern pride” that perpetuates the bias. I’ve seen people from the south get offended when the prevalence of racism in the south is brought up, and then turn around and defend the Confederate flag as “Southern pride.” Still, you’re right. I can understand the idea of people with lesser power feeling the urge/need to band together. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-makes-a-racist-appeal-in-south-carolina-and-nobody-cares/434438.md?page=8)