# Huckabee Pardoned Suspected Seattle Shooter. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 1, 2009, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577 "2009-12-01T12:58:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/1 "2009-12-01T12:58:54Z")
[From the NYT](http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/01/us/politics/01huckabee.html?partner=MYWAY&ei=5065). > [@](#): > > When Mike Huckabee, a former Southern Baptist minister then serving as governor of Arkansas, granted clemency to Maurice Clemmons nine years ago, he cited his age: Mr. Clemmons was 16 when he began the crime spree for which he was sentenced to more than 100 years in prison. > > Now, Mr. Clemmons is being sought as the suspect in the killing of four uniformed police officers, execution-style, on Sunday as they sat in a coffee shop near Tacoma, Wash., writing reports. > > Mr. Huckabee, now a Fox News talk-show host, has been leading the pack of possible Republican contenders for president in 2012. But the killings of the police officers is focusing renewed attention on his long-contentious record of pardoning convicts or commuting their sentences. > > In a decade as governor beginning in 1996, Mr. Huckabee did so twice as many times as his three predecessors combined. He typically gave little explanation for individual pardons. But he spoke often of his belief in redemption, based on a strong religious belief that even criminals are capable of changing their lives and often deserve a second chance. He also raised concerns about the fairness of the Arkansas justice system. > > The commutation of Mr. Clemmons’s sentence was routine enough that it failed to make a list of Mr. Huckabee’s 10 “most publicized” prison commutations compiled by an Arkansas newspaper in August 2004. … ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/2 "2009-12-01T13:16:30Z")
Assuming that Clemmons really is the shooter, this will probably be the end of any remaining presidential ambitions by the Huckmeister - he’d get scuppered in the Republican primaries by the law-and-order crowd. ---
**Author:** ![picunurse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@picunurse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/picunurse)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/3 "2009-12-01T13:27:58Z")
Apparently, Clemmons attempted to shoot another officer who spotted him in a stolen car this morning around 2:20 AM. The officer shot him. He was carrying a weapon taken from one of the officers shot yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/4 "2009-12-01T13:32:57Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Assuming that Clemmons really is the shooter, this will probably be the end of any remaining presidential ambitions by the Huckmeister - he’d get scuppered in the Republican primaries by the law-and-order crowd. I agree with this. He’s done. In fact, I believe this is going to add a new item to the Republican Purity Litmus Test for candidates: Must Not Have Pardoned Someone Who Later Kills 4 Cops. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/5 "2009-12-01T13:57:09Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Assuming that Clemmons really is the shooter, this will probably be the end of any remaining presidential ambitions by the Huckmeister - he’d get scuppered in the Republican primaries by the law-and-order crowd. When Clemmons was tried and convicted, Bill Clinton was the governor. You don’t think the Republicans will try to blame him? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/6 "2009-12-01T14:05:19Z")
Just as an academic matter, I am really curious what has become of all the people the Huckabee pardoned. How many have committed other crimes? 90%? 5%? And I agree, stick a fork in Huckabee. ---
**Author:** ![Mindfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindfield/32/19759_2.png) [@Mindfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mindfield)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/7 "2009-12-01T14:06:04Z")
Huckster’s trying to divert attention from his commutation by [blaming Clemmons’ release](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,578292,00.html) on the prosecution’s failure to file the necessary paperwork in time – an accusation the prosecutors in question are responding to with a resounding “Bullshit!” > [@](#): > > Authorities in two states were criticized amid revelations that Clemmons was allowed to walk the streets despite a teenage crime spree in Arkansas that landed him an 108-year prison sentence. He was released early after then-Gov. Mike Huckabee commuted his sentence. > > Huckabee cited Clemmons’ youth in granting the request. But Clemmons quickly reverted to his criminal past, violated his parole and was returned to prison. He was released again in 2004. > > “This guy should have never been on the street,” said Brian D. Wurts, president of the police union in Lakewood. “Our elected officials need to find out why these people are out.” > > Huckabee said on Fox News’ “The O’Reilly Factor” Monday night that Clemmons was allowed back on the street because prosecutors failed to file paperwork in time. > > Pulaski County Prosecutor Larry Jegley, whose office opposed Clemmons’ parole in 2000 and 2004, said Huckabee’s comments were “red herrings.” ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/8 "2009-12-01T14:06:09Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > When Clemmons was tried and convicted, Bill Clinton was the governor. You don’t think the Republicans will try to blame him? 😕 What, like Huckabee wouldn’t’ve had to have pardoned him if he hadn’t been in prison in the first place? :dubious: ETA: And, yeah, I’m gonna send this over to GD. twickster, MPSIMS moderator ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/9 "2009-12-01T14:08:18Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > When Clemmons was tried and convicted, Bill Clinton was the governor. You don’t think the Republicans will try to blame him? For being in office when Clemmons was apprehended and put in prison for 100 years? Why? ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/10 "2009-12-01T14:23:10Z")
Does anyone have any details about what precisely Clemmons did to merit a 100 year prison sentence at 17? I’ve seen it summarized as “Burglary and theft” which seems more then a little harsh, but maybe the specifics would make it make more sense. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/11 "2009-12-01T14:24:33Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > For being in office when Clemmons was apprehended and put in prison for 100 years? Why? He’s a Democrat. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/12 "2009-12-01T14:27:54Z")
Just to be clear, he didn’t “pardon” this guy. But yeah, he’s probably out of politics now. Then again, he’s raking in the dough over at FOX, so maybe he doesn’t care. He really didn’t stand much of a chance to win the presidency anyway. Not able to raise much $$$. ---
**Author:** ![stolichnaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bcef8e/32.png) [@stolichnaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stolichnaya)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/13 "2009-12-01T14:31:32Z")
This is just a tragic story and I hurt for the families and friends of the officers who were caught up in what appears to be an essentially random act of destruction. What I want to know more about are Huckabee’s motivations in granting clemency to so many in the first place. He is a death penalty supporter, so avoidance of that is not a compelling reason. I suspect (perhaps unfairly) that the folks he pardoned had undergone a conversion to Christianity and that played a role in his decisions. Is there any evidence to suggest this? I just can’t imagine why else he would do it, knowing what I know about him. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/14 "2009-12-01T14:32:20Z")
This cinches the 2012 nomination for Palin, if she wants it. She need no longer fear splitting the “Christian” right vote with Huckabee. Now everybody that gets their news and views from Faux and Rash will come out in droves to support her, if she runs. ---
**Author:** ![Death\_of\_Rats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a6a055/32.png) [@Death\_of\_Rats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Death_of_Rats)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/15 "2009-12-01T14:38:31Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > When Clemmons was tried and convicted, Bill Clinton was the governor. You don’t think the Republicans will try to blame him? No, because when Clinton was Gov he was sentanced to 100 years. It was Huckabee who let him out and nothing will change that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/16 "2009-12-01T14:48:02Z")
Huckabee didn’t let him out. He just made him eligible for parole. The parole board let him out. Huckabee commuted his sentence because he had been handed a ridiculously long one for crimes (none of them murder or rape) committed when he was a minor. Huckabee obviously had no way of knowing the guy was psychotic. At worst, he is guilty of a naive religious faith in redemption, but yes, that’s probably enough to scuttle his Presidential ambitions. If there’s one thing the Christian right can’t abide, it’s a Christian who actually practices Christianity. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/17 "2009-12-01T14:51:11Z")
> [@stolichnaya](#): > > What I want to know more about are Huckabee’s motivations in granting clemency to so many in the first place. I found this summary of Clemmons pre-clemency crimes on his wikipedia page: “The thefts involved robbery of cell phone and house appliances from an unoccupied house, posession of a firearm and stealing women’s purses.” I can’t speak to Huckabees general motivation for pardoning people, but in this case it really seems like Clemmons got a raw deal. 100 years for a minor for a spree of petty thefts and possession of a firearm (which doesn’t seem to have been used in any crime other then the illegal possession itself) seems pretty ridiculous, and as **John Mace** mentions, Huckabee didn’t pardon him, but just used clemency to reduce his sentence enough so that he’d be eligible for parole. Not that I think it’ll help Huckabee any, but I think he has a good case that a) clemency was warrented in this case and b) the subsequent murders are much more the fault of the Washington and Arkansas justice systems, as they should’ve cracked down much harder on Clemmons after he continued to commit crimes and violate his parole after he was granted clemency. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/18 "2009-12-01T15:05:04Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > > [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > > > When Clemmons was tried and convicted, Bill Clinton was the governor. You don’t think the Republicans will try to blame him? > > For being in office when Clemmons was apprehended and put in prison for 100 years? Why? If a window was broken or a drain was blocked up, someone was certain to say that Bill Clinton had come in the night and done it, and when the key of the store-shed was lost, the whole farm was convinced that Bill Clinton had thrown it down the well. Curiously enough, they went on believing this even after the mislaid key was found under a sack of meal. (with apologies to George Orwell) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/19 "2009-12-01T15:11:03Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I can’t speak to Huckabees general motivation for pardoning people, but in this case it really seems like Clemmons got a raw deal. 100 years for a minor for a spree of petty thefts and possession of a firearm (which doesn’t seem to have been used in any crime other then the illegal possession itself) seems pretty ridiculous… I’m having a hard time figuring out the timeline of all his various crimes, but it appears that part of the harsh sentence was related to his threatening the judge in the case, throwing a lock at a bailiff, trying to grab a bailiff’s gun, and hiding a shiv in his sock. The gun possession was for bringing a gun to school. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2009, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577/20 "2009-12-01T15:15:00Z")
All apparently done when he was a minor. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabee-pardoned-suspected-seattle-shooter/519577.md?page=2)