# Huckabee's 2016 bid **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 5, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318 "2015-05-05T15:48:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/121 "2015-11-20T03:21:59Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > There’s no mention of ASCAP nor any mention that Huckabee had permission or paid a performance fee. I imagine that “The Lord hath need of it” was all the permission that he required. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/122 "2015-11-20T03:26:17Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > There’s no mention of ASCAP nor any mention that Huckabee had permission or paid a performance fee. Facts, facts, facts. If you keep doing that you’re just going to make him dizzy. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/123 "2015-11-20T03:30:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > That’s usually not mentioned in such stories, but that would be an incredible blunder if his campaign didn’t buy the license. But if that was the case, Peterik wouldn’t need to sue. The label and ASCAP could sue. Peterik would have to sue under other laws, but I doubt any court would rule in his favor, since those laws generally cover things like people thinking that Peterik endorses Kim Davis or Mike Huckabee. Which no one with an IQ over 70 would assume. The GOP (mostly) has a long and not so proud history of ripping off artists. [34 Artists Who Fought Politicians Over Their Music](http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/stop-using-my-song-34-artists-who-fought-politicians-over-their-music-20150708/bruce-springsteen-vs-ronald-reagan-bob-dole-and-pat-buchanan-20150629) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/124 "2015-11-20T03:39:22Z")
First, inappropriate for Elections, second, if you read newspaper stories about things you actually know about, then you know that journalists don’t know squat about anything and fail to include important details, such as “Did Mike Huckabee’s campaign pay for ASCAP rights?” That’s a key question and it’s left unanswered. There’s no “fact” to cite, because they left the most important fact out completely in their ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/125 "2015-11-20T03:40:53Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > The GOP (mostly) has a long and not so proud history of ripping off artists. > > [34 Artists Who Fought Politicians Over Their Music](http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/stop-using-my-song-34-artists-who-fought-politicians-over-their-music-20150708/bruce-springsteen-vs-ronald-reagan-bob-dole-and-pat-buchanan-20150629) They buy the license, end of story. They always consent to stop playing the music if the artist doesn’t want them to, but the artist doesn’t actually have any legal rights that have been held up in court. You buy the license, you can play the song. Period. Otherwise, ASCAP is perpetrating a fraud on its customers. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/126 "2015-11-20T03:50:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They buy the license, end of story. They always consent to stop playing the music if the artist doesn’t want them to, but the artist doesn’t actually have any legal rights that have been held up in court. You buy the license, you can play the song. Period. Otherwise, ASCAP is perpetrating a fraud on its customers. There was no mention of ASCAP in either article. Why do you keep bringing it up? Is it beyond imagining that politicians would just use a song without permission or buying a license? [RUNNING ON EMPTY: THE PROBLEM WITH POLITICIANS AND STEALING (MUSIC)](http://digitalcommons.lmu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1566&context=elr) Specifically discusses McCain and Jackson Browne. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/127 "2015-11-20T03:58:05Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > They always consent to stop playing the music if the artist doesn’t want them to, but the artist doesn’t actually have any legal rights that have been held up in court. You buy the license, you can play the song. Period. Otherwise, ASCAP is perpetrating a fraud on its customers. From the article linked by **running coach** : > [@](#): > > Sullivan, who wrote “Eye of the Tiger” with Survivor band mate Jim Peterik, sued Newt Gingrich in 2012 for repeatedly using the song at campaign events. The suit was settled out of court. _That_, apparently, is a fact. You maintain that politicians routinely pay licensing fees allowing them to play any music they want at campaign events. _ **IF** _ that is factually correct, then Newt Gingrich is a chump for settling with Sullivan. Or, you are incorrect as to the actual facts of the situation. If The Huckster did cross his T’s and dot his I’s as he should from a legal standpoint, Sulliavan is a chump. I look forward to seeing how this case is resolved but I would be surprised if a professional musician/songwriter has his facts wrong, rather than a bloviating demagogue like Huck. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/128 "2015-11-20T04:08:42Z")
If they didn’t pay the licensing fees, it’s an open and shut case. But since the media usually doesn’t tell us whether they paid or not, a rather important detail, then there’s nothing factual to go on. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/129 "2015-11-20T04:27:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If they didn’t pay the licensing fees, it’s an open and shut case. But since the media usually doesn’t tell us whether they paid or not, a rather important detail, then there’s nothing factual to go on. Licensing fees are a little more complex than that. [PDF-second page.](http://www.ascap.com/~/media/files/pdf/advocacy-legislation/political_campaign.pdf) It doesn’t allow copy/paste. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/130 "2015-11-20T04:45:19Z")
I’ve read that before. It’s just ASCAP trying to do some ass covering. It wouldn’t help them in court if it turns out they don’t actually have the right to sell licenses. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/131 "2015-11-20T04:51:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If they didn’t pay the licensing fees, it’s an open and shut case. But since the media usually doesn’t tell us whether they paid or not, a rather important detail, then there’s nothing factual to go on. WRONG. Paying licensing fees has nothing to do with it. From the [second page of the PDF](http://www.ascap.com/~/media/files/pdf/advocacy-legislation/political_campaign.pdf) linked by **running coach** : > [@](#): > > Q: If the campaign events are properly licensed, can the campaign still be criticized or even sued by an artist for playing his or her song at an event? > A: Yes. If an artist does not want his or her music to be associated with the campaign, he or she may be able to take legal action even if the campaign has the appropriate copyright licenses. It goes on to say even though the campaign would be in compliance with copyright laws they could be in violation of laws covering “right of publicity”, the “Lanham Act” or “false endorsement”. Click the link and read if you need more facts. It is silly to think Sullivan would have started this lawsuit without knowing the law, particuarly given he already got a legal settlement from Gingrich for the EXACT SAME THING in 2012. And it is absurd to think an egotistical blowhard like Huckabee would be bothered to look into the legalities involved. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/132 "2015-11-20T04:55:10Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’ve read that before. It’s just ASCAP trying to do some ass covering. It wouldn’t help them in court if it turns out they don’t actually have the right to sell licenses. The “ass covering” helped Sullivan get a settlement out of Gingrich in 2012. Read the second page from the point I quoted above. Sorry, but you are wrong. The facts don’t support what you are claiming. Period. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/133 "2015-11-20T05:54:06Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > WRONG. Paying licensing fees has nothing to do with it. From the [second page of the PDF](http://www.ascap.com/~/media/files/pdf/advocacy-legislation/political_campaign.pdf) linked by **running coach** : > > It goes on to say even though the campaign would be in compliance with copyright laws they could be in violation of laws covering “right of publicity”, the “Lanham Act” or “false endorsement”. Click the link and read if you need more facts. > > It is silly to think Sullivan would have started this lawsuit without knowing the law, particuarly given he already got a legal settlement from Gingrich for the EXACT SAME THING in 2012. And it is absurd to think an egotistical blowhard like Huckabee would be bothered to look into the legalities involved. > > 😃 No candidate has ever been successfully sued. Generally they just stop playing the song and everyone is happy. If Sullivan really wants to push this, it’ll be gratifying to finally set a precedent. I’m not sure what the basis for his suit will be though. We’ll have to wait and see. The idiot journalist didn’t report that rather important fact either. Is the writer just out of college or something? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/134 "2015-11-20T05:55:14Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > The “ass covering” helped Sullivan get a settlement out of Gingrich in 2012. Read the second page from the point I quoted above. Sorry, but you are wrong. The facts don’t support what you are claiming. Period. “May be able to sue” doesn’t say anything. You “may be able to sue” me right now. No successful lawsuit has ever been won before a jury on a case like this. I"m not even sure if one has ever even gone to court. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/135 "2015-11-20T07:30:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No candidate has ever been successfully sued. Generally they just stop playing the song and everyone is happy. > [@adaher](#): > > No successful lawsuit has ever been won before a jury on a case like this. I"m not even sure if one has ever even gone to court. You’ve made several statements indicating certainty about “no successful lawsuit” on this issue. Care to provide a cite? The ASCAP website indicates there is legal standing to pursue such a claim. You got any cites saying otherwise? And as much as you want to ignore this fact, **Gingrich reached a settlement out of court with the same person because his campaign did exactly the same thing.** Why would Newt allow that to happen if it was the BS issue you want it to be? **And,** I read and understood the information at the link to the ASCAP website concerning precisely this set of circumstances. I’ll trust them for accuracy over you regarding their own rules any day of the week. **Provide a cite that shows you are correct.** ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/136 "2015-11-20T07:41:25Z")
Provide a cite to prove a negative? And a settlement can be as simple as “I promise not to play the song anymore.” ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/137 "2015-11-20T07:48:26Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Provide a cite to prove a negative? And a settlement can be as simple as “I promise not to play the song anymore.” You said > [@](#): > > No successful lawsuit has ever been won before a jury on a case like this. If I made a claim like that I would be sure I knew of at least one case like this that went before a jury and was lost. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/138 "2015-11-20T07:56:27Z")
I don’t think any has ever even gone in front of a jury. Your own cite involves no such examples. In every case, one of three things happened: 1. The campaign stopped using the song 2. An undisclosed settlement 3. The campaign gave the artist the middle finger, said, “We bought the license”, and the artist took no further action. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/139 "2015-11-20T08:01:43Z")
Well, there was a fourth. One campaign changed the song to make it a parody, but a judge ruled it was not actually a parody because it didn’t make fun of the song? It made fun of someone, but okay then. But that’s also a case where a license was obviously not purchased because the campaign thought it was a fair use. And we all know about fair use rules being SDMB posters. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2015, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/140 "2015-11-20T08:11:39Z")
Got a cite for #3? Nonetheless, given his track record I’m pretty sure Sullivan will either get a settlement or judgement against Huckabee. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318.md?page=8)