# Huckabee's 2016 bid **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [May 5, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318 "2015-05-05T15:48:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/161 "2015-11-21T05:14:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Gingrich chose to settle. Huck doesn’t seem intimidated. I hope this does go to court, I’ve been waiting for the answer to this question for a long time. Or he didn’t want the publicity. And Jackson Browne did beat McCain in court. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/162 "2015-11-21T05:18:38Z")
They settled too. If you read your link, McCain did keep using quite a few songs, as did Palin, based on the defense that they bought the license. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/163 "2015-11-21T05:22:33Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > **They settled too**. If you read your link, McCain did keep using quite a few songs, as did Palin, based on the defense that they bought the license. You’re right. It said Browne _won_ a cash settlement. Just proves McCain and Palin are assholes and have no regard for others. Probably why nothing makes it as far as court. No politician wants to be the one to end the party. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/164 "2015-11-21T06:16:20Z")
Nothing can touch the classic, St. Ronnie of Bakersfield using\* Born in the USA\*. I got caught unawares, the TV was on, and there it was. And I sat there, and I stared, and I thought “Christ, what an imagination I’ve got…” ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/165 "2015-11-21T14:10:40Z")
It’s good to know now that artists can sue people who hold gay weddings and play their music without authorization since it might give the false impression that the artist supports gay marriage. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/166 "2015-11-21T16:08:40Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s good to know now that artists can sue people who hold gay weddings and play their music without authorization since it might give the false impression that the artist supports gay marriage. And once again you prove how deliberately ignorant you are about how endorsement works and public perception. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/167 "2015-11-21T23:34:42Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > It’s good to know now that artists can sue people who hold gay weddings and play their music without authorization since it might give the false impression that the artist supports gay marriage. A wedding is not a public event but a campaign rally would be a public event. That would be the distinction there. Btw, are you going for some sort of world record for being wrong about stuff? Because that would explain a whoooooole lot of things. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2015, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/168 "2015-11-21T23:47:33Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Btw, are you going for some sort of world record for being wrong about stuff? Because that would explain a whoooooole lot of things. [Yes. Yes he is.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=700971) ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2015, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/169 "2015-11-22T06:21:10Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > [Yes. Yes he is.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=700971) Oh I remember that thread, I just didn’t think he had officially declared yet. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2015, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/170 "2015-11-22T13:25:29Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > A wedding is not a public event but a campaign rally would be a public event. That would be the distinction there. > > Btw, are you going for some sort of world record for being wrong about stuff? Because that would explain a whoooooole lot of things. There are public wedding ceremonies and public receptions. If it’s at a public venue, then the music would be a “public performance”, and so the artist’s permission would be needed to use the song, which could be denied if the artists disapproved of the wedding. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/171 "2015-11-22T14:27:48Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There are public wedding ceremonies and public receptions. If it’s at a public venue, then the music would be a “public performance”, and so the artist’s permission would be needed to use the song, which could be denied if the artists disapproved of the wedding. No, a wedding is still a private, one time event. Most public halls/buildings that rent out to host such events have a license and the music is chosen either by the bride/groom/wedding organizer or the band if there is one. Now, if there’s a business that organized only gay weddings, any given artist _might_ have a case for objection. A political campaign is an entirely different animal. Using a specific song to symbolize a candidate is not a performance, it’s using a song for a commercial purpose which requires permission despite any purchased license. The use of an artist’s likeness or works is considered by the public as an endorsement since it’s usual (or should be)to get the artist’s permission. I’d like you to explain why you’re so supportive of politicians stealing the works of others. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/172 "2015-11-22T14:34:13Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > And once again you prove how deliberately ignorant you are about how endorsement works and public perception. Don’t make it personal, please. If you must, the BBQ Pit is a few short clicks away. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2015, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/173 "2015-11-23T04:29:12Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I’d like you to explain why you’re so supportive of politicians stealing the works of others. Stealing? they paid for it. Do you call Blizzard and ask them if they approve of you playing Warcraft? No, it’s in the store, you buy it. Likewise, ASCAP sells licenses to play music. You buy a license, you can play the music. Now if no one bought a license, then Sullivan will win his suit, depending on what he’s suing for, which isn’t clear yet(thanks media!) The way Huck is talking, he’s claiming he “allowed” it to be played, which means that it might not have been his team that played the music, but some other organizers, maybe people affiliated with Davis? Again, would be nice for the media to better explain this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_stamos_left_ear/32/3198_2.png) [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Stamos_Left_Ear)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/174 "2015-11-24T15:24:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Stealing? they paid for it. The artist said they didn’t want to sell it. In what world can someone be forced to sell something to someone? (Oh, and before you bring up gay wedding cakes, which I am sure you think is an awesome “Gotcha!” moment for you, Republican politicians ain’t a protected class and the songwriters aren’t discriminating against them because of their race, gender or sexual orientation, they are not selling it to them because they are assholes.) ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/175 "2015-11-24T15:41:30Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > The artist said they didn’t want to sell it. In what world can someone be forced to sell something to someone? Copyright law world, which contains the notion of the compulsory license: > [@](#): > > Must One Use a Compulsory License? > > No. Anyone wishing to make and distribute phonorecords of a nondramatic musical work can negotiate directly with the copyright owner or his or her agent. But if the copyright owner is unwilling to negotiate, or if the copyright owner can not be contacted, the person intending to record the work or make a DPD can use the compulsory licensing provisions of the copyright law. [Citation (PDF)](http://copyright.gov/circs/circ73.pdf) [The law itself, which contains a caveat which renders Huckabee a weak and stupid loser](http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#115): > [@](#): > > A person may obtain a compulsory license only if his or her primary purpose in making phonorecords is to distribute them to the public for private use, including by means of a digital phonorecord delivery. The law is sometimes verbose and opaque. That, however, is fairly clear. In fact, there’s more. [More on how Huckabee is toast](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/106#4): > [@](#): > > Subject to sections 107 through 122, the owner of copyright under this title has the exclusive rights to do and to authorize any of the following: > (4) in the case of literary, musical, dramatic, and choreographic works, pantomimes, and motion pictures and other audiovisual works, to perform the copyrighted work publicly So, in a narrow sense, there is a law relevant to this case which does mandate that people can be legally forced to sell things to others. In a broader sense, Huckabee is screwed, because the law explicitly forbids doing what he did, and the courts apparently agree with my legal analysis, as the previous posts in this thread have shown. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/176 "2015-11-24T15:57:08Z")
> [@John\_Stamos\_Left\_Ear](#): > > The artist said they didn’t want to sell it. In what world can someone be forced to sell something to someone? The artist did want to sell it. That’s why ASCAP is authorized to sell licenses for the song. He just wants to be able to discriminate. And yes, I know political parties aren’t a protected class. i would never claim that Huck could use that as a legal defense. However, he can use these as legal defenses: 1. I bought the license, if I wasn’t authorized to buy it, then ASCAP is subject to lawsuits for selling a product they weren’t authorized to sell. 2. Sullivan’s reputation is not threatened because no one knows who the hell Frank Sullivan is. 3. No reasonable person could think that Frank Sullivan endorses my campaign or Kim Davis because no reasonable person thinks that a song played at an event implies endorsement by the songwriters, the record company, or the performers. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/177 "2015-11-24T16:12:19Z")
So when you buy a song license from ASCAP that gives you permission to do what, exactly? On the other hand, if you have written permission from the artist to use a song, can you bypass ASCAP entirely? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/178 "2015-11-24T16:28:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > However, he can use these as legal defenses Which of the following words is unclear to you? > [@](#): > > A person may obtain a compulsory license only if his or her primary purpose in making phonorecords is to distribute them to the public for private use ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/179 "2015-11-24T18:22:44Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The artist did want to sell it. That’s why ASCAP is authorized to sell licenses for the song. He just wants to be able to discriminate. And yes, I know political parties aren’t a protected class. i would never claim that Huck could use that as a legal defense. However, he can use these as legal defenses: > > 1. I bought the license, if I wasn’t authorized to buy it, then ASCAP is subject to lawsuits for selling a product they weren’t authorized to sell. > > 2. Sullivan’s reputation is not threatened because no one knows who the hell Frank Sullivan is. > > 3. No reasonable person could think that Frank Sullivan endorses my campaign or Kim Davis because no reasonable person thinks that a song played at an event implies endorsement by the songwriters, the record company, or the performers. 1. I’m unsure of this one- does buying the license give one carte blanche to play it at any gathering? I should think that one has the right not to have one’s music played at a Nazi meeting, cockfight, or Huckabee rally. 2. So Frank Sullivan has fewer rights than someone well known? 3. I don’t buy this. Having your music played at the event of a despicable organization will associate you with said organization, whether you want it to or not. Huckabee would be well served by advice to drop it and use someone else’s music. ---
**Author:** ![Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a183cd/32.png) [@Barkis\_is\_Willin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barkis_is_Willin)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2015, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318/180 "2015-11-24T21:59:34Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > 1. I don’t buy this. Having your music played at the event of a despicable organization will associate you with said organization, whether you want it to or not. This is actually his strongest argument, in my opinion. I’ve never heard someone play a CD at an event and drawn the conclusion that the artist must be a supporter of said event. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huckabees-2016-bid/719318.md?page=10)