# Huge Amount of WWII Surplus? Why? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 11, 2010, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165 "2010-03-11T22:39:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/21 "2010-03-12T09:09:38Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > :dubious: No, he’s right. After WWII a lot of tanks had the turrets pulled off (or the guns removed) and were sold to farmers and so on as tractors and load-haulers on rural properties and so on. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/22 "2010-03-12T09:29:00Z")
Returning to the OP, a lot of things conspired to create huge surpluses. As mentioned, every possible supply decision was safe-sided. When gambling with people’s lives, it makes sense to err on the side of caution. Next, the end of the war changed the political dynamic all to heck. The US was no longer supplying the Chinese and Russians for example. Further the US military demand for stuff also crashed. Next many of the items used in WWII were obsolete by the end of that conflict. Although Sherman tanks were still in use, this was not the military’s choice. Had we followed a more rational policy even more of that WWII stuff would have ended up junked in favor of new models. Finally, consider the lack of computing power in the Good Old Days. To meet the potential need for anything anywhere, it was easier to use brute force and move enough of everything everywhere. Panama for example, had warehouses full of WWII stuff. There might have been a fight in Panama, and the only way to be ready was to have equipment on hand. Computer could not track what went where, so there were scads of waste. ---
**Author:** ![FRDE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e68b1a/32.png) [@FRDE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FRDE)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/23 "2010-03-12T10:16:33Z")
In the UK another minor addition to ‘surplus uniforms’ was that on release soldiers were issued with ‘demob suits’ and coats - and their uniforms were supposed to be confiscated. The reason was that they really did not want a bunch of hacked off guys wandering around in uniform - as happened after WWI. Also I vaguely remember that the Stahlhelm in Germany were just such people, and contributed to the rise of the NSDAP. Recently I read that the USA Hells Angels were originally hacked off WWII Bomber crews - maybe confiscating their flying jackets would have cooled them off. From memories of stuff in the UK that was brought home, generally it was done deviously - or that was the story. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/24 "2010-03-12T10:26:03Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > No, he’s right. After WWII a lot of tanks had the turrets pulled off (or the guns removed) and were sold to farmers and so on as tractors and load-haulers on rural properties and so on. I saw an old rusting tank chassis, with one tread gone & the other busted, & a home-made, makeshift crane. It was on a farm in Waukesha County, Wisconsin, in the 70s. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/25 "2010-03-12T11:57:59Z")
> [@FRDE](#): > > In the UK another minor addition to ‘surplus uniforms’ was that on release soldiers were issued with ‘demob suits’ and coats - and their uniforms were supposed to be confiscated. > > The reason was that they really did not want a bunch of hacked off guys wandering around in uniform - as happened after WWI. Also I vaguely remember that the Stahlhelm in Germany were just such people, and contributed to the rise of the NSDAP. > > Recently I read that the USA Hells Angels were originally hacked off WWII Bomber crews - maybe confiscating their flying jackets would have cooled them off. > > From memories of stuff in the UK that was brought home, generally it was done deviously - or that was the story. Most people who were getting out of the military had no desire to wear uniform, or anything resembling it, ever again. My father gave his uniform and boots to his father, who wore it out doing the gardening. ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/26 "2010-03-12T12:46:54Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > [Interesting.](http://hnn.us/articles/1801.html) Thanks for bringing me up to date. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/27 "2010-03-12T13:41:13Z")
The feds still dispose of surplus and of gear that is being phased out. These days they sell a lot of stuff to state, county, and local governments. When my dad was a county sheriff, he bought stufffrom them. The stuff for sale included ground vehicles and helicopters. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/28 "2010-03-12T15:25:32Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > No, he’s right. After WWII a lot of tanks had the turrets pulled off (or the guns removed) and were sold to farmers and so on as tractors and load-haulers on rural properties and so on. Ignorance fought! My apologies to **ralph124c**. ---
**Author:** ![butler1850](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@butler1850](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butler1850)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/29 "2010-03-12T16:31:04Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > No, he’s right. After WWII a lot of tanks had the turrets pulled off (or the guns removed) and were sold to farmers and so on as tractors and load-haulers on rural properties and so on. At least one of them was converted into a logging yarder. My cite here, of course, is Ax Men, which has made me an expert logger. I’m sure there were many uses for the leftover chassis. Relatively simple design, and maintenance requirements, and built for heavy duty use. Combine that with some “Yankee ingenuity,” and you’ll see a host of interesting repurposing. Apparently, Morpac Industries in Canada still makes equipment based on the Sherman components. [Post–World War II Sherman tanks - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-WWII_Sherman_tanks#Civilian_variants) ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/30 "2010-03-12T17:44:08Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > Now, the “Army-Navy” stores are all gone Just another “no they’re not” chiming in. There’s an “Army Navy Surplus Sales” store [in downtown-ish Milwaukee, 707 W. Wisconsin Avenue](http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=james+lovell+%26+wisconsin+avenue,+milwaukee,+wi&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.231745,78.837891&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=W+Wisconsin+Ave+%26+N+James+Lovell+St,+Milwaukee,+Wisconsin&ll=43.038815,-87.920752&spn=0,359.97262&z=16&layer=c&cbll=43.038815,-87.920864&panoid=fcP-QzVcMl0-zRD1CgQ6Bw&cbp=12,146.3,,0,3.81). See also: [Results 1 - 10 of about 8,780,000 for army navy surplus](http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=army+navy+surplus). ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/31 "2010-03-12T18:45:02Z")
You may find it surprising, but there’s a good quantity of WW1 stuff still in Brtisih military stores. When I joined the RN I my waist was quite a bit thinner than everyone else, although and the result was that I was issued with shirts and pants dated 1918 and 1917. When we did our initial training on the parade ground the webbing belts and puttees were even older, being pre WW1 and yes I do mean the type of puttees that you see in the pictures of trench warfare. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/32 "2010-03-12T18:59:55Z")
Another little anecdote, at Clarence yard in Portsmouth they had an ammo storage facility that housed shells that could only had fitted WW1 warships, and rumour had it that in other ammo stores there were still 15" ammunition being held. If you google ‘Monitor M33’ it would seem like there’s a ship that could make use of it too! ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/33 "2010-03-12T19:19:53Z")
I suspect that much of the surplus was due to a downsized Army. Over 8M in the Army alone in 1945, less than a million at the outbreak of the Korean Conflict. That’s a lot of surplus entrenching tools! ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/34 "2010-03-12T19:40:46Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > Another part of the reason was that mass production was easier than fighting. > > By 1944 the USA was producing more material goods than the rest of the entire world COMBINED. The Brits had a saying. Yanks don’t solve their logistic problems. They overwhelmed them. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Recliner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a88e57/32.png) [@Recliner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recliner)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/35 "2010-03-12T23:30:51Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > When I was a kid, Boston was full of “Army-Navy” stores-these places had huge stocks of WWII-vintage military gear-everything from puptents to canteens, army and navy uniforms, gas masks, etc. > It seemed that a lot of this stuff had never been used-I bought a US Army mess kit (for camping out) for $3.00-it was still in its original box (stamped 1944). > It seemed that these stores had an unlimited supply of this stuff-did the US government simply buy too much of everything? > I even recall that old Army trucks and tanks could be had for very little. > Now, the “Army-Navy” stores are all gone-what happens to surplus stuff today-is it destroyed? FWIW, they were still around (in force) through the 80s and much of the 90s, if I recall. I was born in 1980, and we had three Army/Navy stores in town – and I saw them all over. They seem to be a thing of the past as of today. ---
**Author:** ![Recliner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a88e57/32.png) [@Recliner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Recliner)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2010, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/36 "2010-03-12T23:32:36Z")
RE: the OP’s question, my guess would be that much of the “surplus” was simply produced by the same contractors. I mentioned the 80s/90s stores, and while they had “combat boots” and BTUs, they also carried a lot of other junk (often a big selection of knives and martial-arts weapons, paintball stuff, and other things that just fit the general product segment). ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/37 "2010-03-13T00:11:32Z")
They attempt to order less excess in the first place. And much materiel is offered to other Federal agencies if the DoD decides it no longer wants it. Some is loaned or sold (or effectively given away if US Mutual Assistance Program funds are used to buy it) to foreign allies. Some, such as ammunition, will be broken up for scrap value. There’s a thing called the Defense Reutilization & Marketing Service which exists to do this sort of stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/38 "2010-03-13T01:14:59Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > No, he’s right. After WWII a lot of tanks had the turrets pulled off (or the guns removed) and were sold to farmers and so on as tractors and load-haulers on rural properties and so on. At the company I used to work for we had an old, huge fork lift that was a surplus bomb loader from WWII. ---
**Author:** ![from\_a\_to\_z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5fc32e/32.png) [@from\_a\_to\_z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/from_a_to_z)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165/39 "2010-03-13T01:45:09Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > …Most of it looks new to me… That quote, and **KneadToKnow** ’s link to _History News Network_’s article about “In 2000, for the first time in years, the government ordered a new supply of Purple Hearts…” reminded me of an incident in Philip Kerr’s book _If the Dead Rise Not_ ([Amazon UK link to book](http://www.amazon.co.uk/If-Dead-Rise-Not-corruption/dp/1849161933/)), when, in Part Two’s Chapter 9, Bernie Gunther walks into a Buenos Aires shop selling counterfeit WWII German memorabilia. I suspect that an Iron Cross is easier to fake than a tank, for example, but if I ever want to buy either (or both) I’ll try to be wary. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huge-amount-of-wwii-surplus-why/532165.md?page=1)