# Hugo Chavez shutting down Radio Caracas Television **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 16, 2007, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263 "2007-05-16T01:03:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2007, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/61 "2007-05-28T19:52:42Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] What utopian Shangri La were you expecting and why? [/QUOTE] I was expecting nothing – I never even noticed when Chavez was elected; I learned a lot more about him during and after the 2002 coup. I suppose I **would** have expected simply something better than Venezuela had before – and most Venezuelans seem to think that’s exactly what they’ve got now. Not utopia, just an improvement. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2007, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/62 "2007-05-28T20:01:28Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I was expecting nothing – I never even noticed when Chavez was elected; I learned a lot more about him during and after the 2002 coup. I suppose I **would** have expected simply something better than Venezuela had before – and most Venezuelans seem to think that’s exactly what they’ve got now. Not utopia, just an improvement. [/QUOTE] As long as the trains run on time. If they’re lucky they’ll get a rice cooker every 47 years. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2007, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/63 "2007-05-28T21:02:08Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] I’ll just be interested to see how lefties start responding if we elect a Democrat and Chavez starts railing on the new President just as hard as Bush. [/QUOTE] Actually, thinking some more about that . . . In addition to Cuba, Chavez has gone out of his way to form alliances with Belarus, Russia, Iran – almost every country (except for NK) that’s on bad terms with the U.S. (See [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=381211) thread.) It makes sense from his POV – when you have a powerful enemy you need all the friends you can get, even if they’re only your friends by virtue of being your enemy’s enemies. (Ideologically, Chavez’ “Bolivarianism” is leftist and secular and has absolutely no common ground with Iranian theocracy.) But now he’s kind of locked into it, isn’t he? A change of administration here won’t automatically make it any easier for Venezuela and the U.S. to be friends – unless we’re also willing to make friends with Venezuela’s allies. Which we could. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2007, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/64 "2007-05-28T21:22:42Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] As long as the trains run on time. If they’re lucky they’ll get a rice cooker every 47 years. [/QUOTE] We’ll see. Remember, they’re not trying a Soviet-style command economy (yet). Venezuela’s [economy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela) tanked in the early years of Chavez’ administration but it seems to be doing all right now. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2007, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/65 "2007-05-28T22:14:44Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Actually, thinking some more about that . . . In addition to Cuba, Chavez has gone out of his way to form alliances with Belarus, Russia, Iran – almost every country (except for NK) that’s on bad terms with the U.S. (See [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=381211) thread.) It makes sense from his POV – when you have a powerful enemy you need all the friends you can get, even if they’re only your friends by virtue of being your enemy’s enemies. (Ideologically, Chavez’ “Bolivarianism” is leftist and secular and has absolutely no common ground with Iranian theocracy.) But now he’s kind of locked into it, isn’t he? A change of administration here won’t automatically make it any easier for Venezuela and the U.S. to be friends – unless we’re also willing to make friends with Venezuela’s allies. Which we could. [/QUOTE] Well that and the whole dictator thing. Birds of a feather. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2007, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/66 "2007-05-28T22:17:42Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] We’ll see. Remember, they’re not trying a Soviet-style command economy (yet). Venezuela’s [economy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela) tanked in the early years of Chavez’ administration but it seems to be doing all right now. [/QUOTE] Can’t get eggs if you fry up the chicken. When he gets done nationalizing stuff there won’t be any private enterprise to steal from. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/67 "2007-05-29T13:37:31Z")
FWIW, anecdotes about the RCTV deal: The government has TV space on all TV stations. Besides the speeches and “cadenas”, that is. They are all supposed to air “ads” that started in a vein similar to public anouncements to educate the people. They quickly turned into open political propaganda. After the closure of RCTV was anounced, some of this segments were just open mockeries of RCTV to the tune of the famous salsa song “todo tiene su final” (everything has an end). Globovision, the only real opposition station left, opposed airing those and finally managed to stave them off on the grounds that the government didn’t have the rights to use that song. Eventually, the goverment prevailed (no details have been given as to whether they lawfully acquired rights to use the song) and they were forced to air those mocking segments. How is that for abusing power? Until friday night, the government was saying that their new station that would use RCTV’s band, would run from their own equipment. This meant that only people in a couple of cities would be able to see it, unless they had cable. Cables companies are mandated to transmit goverment channels for free. Then they started saying that they would be visible all over the country, which was only possible by confiscating RCTV’s equipment, but wouldn’t say how they planned to do it. Only at the last minute they admitted that they would confiscate (not expropriate) RCTV’s assets. Globovision, again, the only opposition station left, is now under “legal” action from the government under the claim that they are inciting magnicide. How? They have a self-promotion segment with a “you saw it here first” kinda speech with background images of 9-11, the tsunami, and what-have-you easily recognizable news clips. Among them is the assassination attempt on John Paul II. That’s it. At least they are being upfront about how suggestionable they believe the venezuelan people is. The legal figure under which the RCTV assets were confiscated, was created just for this. It wasn’t previously existent under the constitution or any other code. The confiscation is supposed to be temporary. Right. Temporary until the new constitution comes out and makes it legally airtight to keep them. There is no arguing that Chavez was elected. I have nothing against the guy. He has, time and again, outsmarted the opposition who seem to be hoping for an American invasion or a Israeli assassination of Chavez. But to claim that he is a democratic ruler is just blindly sticking to the fine print of their daily invented laws. To quote Chavez himself, let he who has eyes see. ---
**Author:** ![Trotsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@Trotsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trotsky)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/68 "2007-05-29T13:40:42Z")
I’m sure since Bush was elected twice there would be massive support if he shut down NPR and PBS, and other stations that lean left and set up conversative stations. Ah yes, the hypocrisy of the online ‘intellectual’. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/69 "2007-05-29T16:41:36Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] Globovision, again, the only opposition station left, is now under “legal” action from the government under the claim that they are inciting magnicide. [/QUOTE] I can’t find “magnicide” in Merriam-Webster Online. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/70 "2007-05-29T16:53:10Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I can’t find “magnicide” in Merriam-Webster Online. [/QUOTE] :eek: nor on any other dictionary, for that matter. (although googling the term takes me to the meaning I had in mind). The word “magnicidio” which I liberally translated as “magnicide” means the killing of a leader (president, king, pope, etc). Is there a better word for it in english? ---
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/71 "2007-05-29T16:53:35Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] I can’t find “magnicide” in Merriam-Webster Online. [/QUOTE] Magnicidio in spanish means the assasination of a very important person, I’m guessing that’s what Sapo meant. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/72 "2007-05-29T17:24:58Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] :eek: nor on any other dictionary, for that matter. (although googling the term takes me to the meaning I had in mind). The word “magnicidio” which I liberally translated as “magnicide” means the killing of a leader (president, king, pope, etc). Is there a better word for it in english? [/QUOTE] “Regicide” applies only to kings. I guess we would usually say “assassination.” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/73 "2007-05-29T18:45:01Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] Globovision, again, the only opposition station left [/QUOTE] You lost me here. Besides Globovision there is Televén, Venevisión and other Cable outfits that remain in private hands and opposed to Chavez. When you say “the only opposition station left” I have to begin to dustrust what you are saying, maybe your sources are not telling you the whole history. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/74 "2007-05-29T18:48:03Z")
[QUOTE=Trotsky] I’m sure since Bush was elected twice there would be massive support if he shut down NPR and PBS, and other stations that lean left and set up conversative stations. Ah yes, the hypocrisy of the online ‘intellectual’. [/QUOTE] Ignorancy can only get you so far, I bet you will never wonder why your sources of information did not tell you the whole truth: only one station that broadcasted lies to incite a coup was given the axe. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 29, 2007, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/75 "2007-05-29T19:09:23Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] But to claim that he is a democratic ruler is just blindly sticking to the fine print of their daily invented laws. [/QUOTE] All laws are invented. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/76 "2007-05-30T00:27:31Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] You lost me here. Besides Globovision there is Televén, Venevisión and other Cable outfits that remain in private hands and opposed to Chavez. When you say “the only opposition station left” I have to begin to dustrust what you are saying, maybe your sources are not telling you the whole history. [/QUOTE] nah, they have all cried uncle at some point or another. They might not be government controlled but they follow the line quietly. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/77 "2007-05-30T00:29:04Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] All laws are invented. [/QUOTE] yes, but not daily to fit the whim-du-jour of the ruler. Laws are not “invented”, they are “agreed upon”. Or at least that’s the theory, one would hope. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/78 "2007-05-30T01:03:28Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] yes, but not daily to fit the whim-du-jour of the ruler. Laws are not “invented”, they are “agreed upon”. Or at least that’s the theory, one would hope. [/QUOTE] unless you’re Chavez. After controlling the media the next step will be to execute his political enemies. Then he will execute large numbers of his countrymen who he fears are his enemies. Then he’ll get really paranoid and use his newly acquired oil money to build the 3rd largest standing army in the world. And Jimmy Carter will be there to rubber stamp the elections. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/79 "2007-05-30T02:35:42Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] :eek: nor on any other dictionary, for that matter. (although googling the term takes me to the meaning I had in mind). The word “magnicidio” which I liberally translated as “magnicide” means the killing of a leader (president, king, pope, etc). Is there a better word for it in english? [/QUOTE] Perhaps tyrannicide if he/she is a dictator. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/80 "2007-05-30T02:42:54Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] yes, but not daily to fit the whim-du-jour of the ruler. Laws are not “invented”, they are “agreed upon”. Or at least that’s the theory, one would hope. [/QUOTE] Ah, well. Before they wrote that regrettable decree-powers clause into Venezuela’s constitution, they should have anticipated the possibility a leftist president might one day make use of it. (Though I do wonder why he thinks he needs it, since Parliament is composed almost entirely of his supporters and would back any decision he made in any case.) All Pubs who support the “unitary executive” theory or expanded “wartime” powers for Bush, please take note. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263.md?page=5)