# Hugo Chavez shutting down Radio Caracas Television **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 16, 2007, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263 "2007-05-16T01:03:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/81 "2007-05-30T02:54:01Z")
[QUOTE=Martin Hyde] The guy tried to seize control in a military coup. That’s one of those things, one of those _acts of treason_ you like to talk about so much (and even did in this thread) that you don’t get a “pass” on. Hitler and the Nazis took things to extreme levels, maybe not the worst we’ve ever seen, but they’re definitely in contention. And, it was in a Western country that was traditionally prided for many of its intellectuals and had a relatively high standard of living prior to WWI. [/QUOTE] Hugo Chavez is a threat to Venezuelan democracy, but comparing him to Adolf Hitler is stupid. There’s more to the evil of Hitler and Nazism than just them shutting down opposition media outlets. I sometimes wonder if people are actually aware of what Hitler and Nazism was about. We’re not taking about a guy who just started out shutting up his political opponents and went too far; we’re talking about an ideology that - as a fundamental plank of its outlook - rejected the notions of moral absolutes and individual rights in favour of pure tyranny of force, to be used towards the extermination of all racial inferiors. We’re talking about an ideology that, both philosophically and in practice, _denied the very concepts of right and wrong._ Even Saddam Hussein didn’t go that far. > [@](#): > > It really shouldn’t take an example as extreme as Hitler to get people’s attention, but unfortunately that appears to be what it takes. People don’t care about Hugo Chavez for the same reason they don’t care about most tinpot dictators; it doesn’t much affect them. You can trot out an incorrect Hitler comparison all you want, and it won’t change that fact. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/82 "2007-05-30T03:29:22Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Ah, well. Before they wrote that regrettable decree-powers clause into Venezuela’s constitution, they should have anticipated the possibility a leftist president might one day make use of it. (Though I do wonder why he thinks he needs it, since Parliament is composed almost entirely of his supporters and would back any decision he made in any case.) [/quote] Yeah, who would thunk that a leftist leader might come to power in Venezuela. 😕 Weren’t those laws just put in there recently? > [@](#): > > All Pubs who support the “unitary executive” theory or expanded “wartime” powers for Bush, please take note. Well, I’m not a “Pub”, but 1) there is no unitary consensus on what “unitary executive” means, although you do like to trot it out like some boogieman, and 2) wartime powers are routinely granted (or assumed) by presidents. We’re just not in what I’d call a real war at this time. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 30, 2007, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/83 "2007-05-30T03:55:41Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Yeah, who would thunk that a leftist leader might come to power in Venezuela. 😕 Weren’t those laws just put in there recently? [/QUOTE] The laws in question were; the decree-powers provision of the constitution predates Chavez’ election, and was used (in more limited scope) by other presidents. And Chavez is a more radical leftist than any of his predecessors, including Romulo Betancourt. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/84 "2007-05-31T16:26:55Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] The laws in question were; the decree-powers provision of the constitution predates Chavez’ election, and was used (in more limited scope) by other presidents. [/QUOTE] Here’s an interesting [debate](http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/02/1533248) on Chavez’ decree powers, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/85 "2007-05-31T17:27:50Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] Here’s an interesting [debate](http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/02/1533248) on Chavez’ decree powers, BTW. [/QUOTE] And just today, from the same (lefty) source, a [debate](http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/31/1412206) on the closure of RCTV. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/86 "2007-05-31T18:07:29Z")
[QUOTE=Magiver] unless you’re Chavez. After controlling the media the next step will be to execute his political enemies. Then he will execute large numbers of his countrymen who he fears are his enemies. Then he’ll get really paranoid and use his newly acquired oil money to build the 3rd largest standing army in the world. And Jimmy Carter will be there to rubber stamp the elections. [/QUOTE] so sad, so true about Carter. Not only that but there are still Venezuelans who have some hope that the solution will come from the international community. Not so sure about the standing army, though. Doesn’t seem to fit with the rest of the program. His is more about a “hiding army” than a standing one. Just arm everyone on the street who claims to be on your side, establish “circulos” (Cuba style) to have them police each other, and you are set. A real army is harder to manage and more prone to attempt a coup of him. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/87 "2007-05-31T18:08:38Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] The laws in question were; the decree-powers provision of the constitution predates Chavez’ election, and was used (in more limited scope) by other presidents. And Chavez is a more radical leftist than any of his predecessors, including Romulo Betancourt. [/QUOTE] Yes but they were confined to “states of emergency”, not for the daily management of the country. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/88 "2007-05-31T18:57:16Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] so sad, so true about Carter. [/QUOTE] When has he ever “rubber stamped” an election? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/89 "2007-05-31T21:31:21Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] so sad, so true about Carter. Not only that but there are still Venezuelans who have some hope that the solution will come from the international community. [/QUOTE] Sorry, another thing that shows how wrong you are, When Carter was there for the referendum it was the opposition the ones that tried to pressure Carter to say their polling showed the referendum was a fraud. In reality the opposition was caught with fake or massaged polling that to this day they are still insisting it was good. :sigh: The vive I get is just once again the one that falls for the trap of believing propaganda as fact. That is the path that lead to the Bay of Pigs and that led to the **strengthening** of Castro’s grip in Cuba. Likewise, I do call this behavior of exaggerating or misleading information to incite moves against Chavez foolish in the sense that the opposition is just making real the propaganda Chavez and their ilk put out. I prefer the truth, and if the truth says the people are for Chavez and his programs I would rather investigate how to get the people back, not with rhetoric that attempts to make the news worse, (like saying “one remaining source” when that was not true) I only will call Chavez a great man if he steps down after losing an election or deciding not to run again. Right now he is a weak bully, and I don’t even respect that, but the reason why I pull punches against Chavez is because I do compare his actions to what the opposition was going to do. When I remember reading the reports right after the coup of the opposition’s leaders rounding up and killing Chavez supporters (that move ended quick when the coup collapsed in 2 days) I do not think they were rounding them up to play checkers. Based on the past history of Latin America it was logical to expect a dictatorship that would have made Pinochet look like a girl scout, and we would be discussing today about the harassments and bombings to even small opposition papers (to the Carmona regime) brave enough to continue. When I saw the mainstream press in Venezuela calling the coup a democratic action, I do not think I will trust anything of that they say for a while, That is why I do not appreciate making the current opposition the defenders of democracy. I demand better, and I do think it is possible to do it, however it will be impossible if the only idea is to cry wolf and continue organizing an opposition that only plays into a strong man’s hand. Venezuelans in the opposition need to be truthful and get close to the people and eventually they will defeat misguided populists like Chavez. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [May 31, 2007, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/90 "2007-05-31T23:57:42Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] When has he ever “rubber stamped” an election? [/QUOTE] the elections in Venezuela are simply “unauditable”. The machines and paper records pass to be in control of the government and there is no way for impartial observers to know what has become of them. Then results are produced and there is no way to challenge them. Anyone who vouches for the transparency of that process is blindly vouching the government who controls the electoral process. This is not to say that I doubt in any possible way that Chavez enjoys the support of the majority. I sincerely believe that he does enjoy popular support and he has been smarter and more astute than the opposition in securing that support (and this without abusing power, fancy that!). My concern is that Carter and co., by vouching a process that they could only follow up to the voting tables, are building a trust capital for Chavez that he will be all too ready to exploit if he ever needs to. **GIGO** , from your last post (and contrary to the image I was gathering from your previous posts), I believe we are on the same boat (even if rowing to different drums). Chavez is the worst possible leader for Venezuela, with the exception of all the alternatives. The opposition has always been foolish enough to follow the direction that Chavez chooses for the national discourse. Always reacting and never predicting. The demonization of Chavez only serves to strengthen him. That doesn’t mean we need to pull punches and not call him on his wrongs. When he is wrong, he is wrong and we can’t just let him free to avoid making opposition. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/91 "2007-06-01T08:38:51Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] **GIGO** , from your last post (and contrary to the image I was gathering from your previous posts), I believe we are on the same boat (even if rowing to different drums). Chavez is the worst possible leader for Venezuela, with the exception of all the alternatives. [/quote] 😕 > [@](#): > > The opposition has always been foolish enough to follow the direction that Chavez chooses for the national discourse. Always reacting and never predicting. The demonization of Chavez only serves to strengthen him. Yes. > [@](#): > > That doesn’t mean we need to pull punches and not call him on his wrongs. The problem here is finding that you are going to the extreme of lying to give a punch, (now I notice that you are ignoring that Carter did the right thing) that does not fly even if you think Chavez deserves it. > [@](#): > > When he is wrong, he is wrong and we can’t just let him free to avoid making opposition. Then get better sources next time. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/92 "2007-06-01T09:21:16Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] The problem here is finding that you are going to the extreme of lying to give a punch, (now I notice that you are ignoring that Carter did the right thing) that does not fly even if you think Chavez deserves it. [/QUOTE] How did Carter do the right thing by vouching for a process he could not follow? How does he know there was no foul play when he cannot audit an electoral process that is handled behind locked doors by an electoral office that was finger picked by one of the parties? oh, and the first bit that confused you was a paraphrase from: “Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried.” - Winston Churchill ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/93 "2007-06-01T10:02:20Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] How did Carter do the right thing by vouching for a process he could not follow? How does he know there was no foul play when he cannot audit an electoral process that is handled behind locked doors by an electoral office that was finger picked by one of the parties? [/quote] Saying that he could not follow ignores that he was not the only one on his group checking the stuff. I have to say it, it is propaganda from the opposition what you are repeating here. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=271580&highlight=venezuela](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=271580&highlight=venezuela) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6883050&postcount=4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6883050&postcount=4) > [@](#): > > oh, and the first bit that confused you was a paraphrase from: > > “Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried.” > > - Winston Churchill No it was not that, you aknowledged that the oposition was worse or as bad, and yet you follow their propaganda, it makes people who did follow the news back then look at you and be confused. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/94 "2007-06-01T13:26:17Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] Saying that he could not follow ignores that he was not the only one on his group checking the stuff. I have to say it, it is propaganda from the opposition what you are repeating here. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=271580&highlight=venezuela](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=271580&highlight=venezuela) [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6883050&postcount=4](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=6883050&postcount=4) No it was not that, you aknowledged that the oposition was worse or as bad, and yet you follow their propaganda, it makes people who did follow the news back then look at you and be confused. [/QUOTE] :dubious: Do you really think I am saying that Mr Carter has to be present at every table at the same time? Of course I mean “the Carter Center delegates” when I say “Carter”, don’t just assume stupidity on my part, please. I read though both your links and neither does anything to allay my concerns about the electoral process being opaque to scrutiny. Even if Carter had people at every single table (they didn’t), they have no way to scrutinize the electoral registry or what happens to the ballot boxes once they are turned over to the electoral authorities. Even if their “seal of approval” somehow includes some fine print that specifies that they are only vouching for what little they could observe, the reality is that nobody reads that fine print. The headline is that elections happened, Carter was there and found them ok. When they really didn’t see the half of it. Again, I am not saying that Chavez stole the vote. I think he had more than enough of a base to win the elections. Even without all the fishy “cedulacion” (nationalization) of thousands of Lybians, Colombians and Cubans, the people being bused to electoral centers, the dead voters and multiple registrations. He didn’t need any of that to win. But just because he was going to win anyways, that doesn’t mean we should let all the irregularities pass. He still needs to be kept honest. Otherwise you are paving the way for when he does need to commit fraud (if ever). Not every criticism of Chavez is following the opposition propaganda. That is just name calling, Chavez’s favourite tool of manipulation. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/95 "2007-06-01T15:07:55Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] Again, I am not saying that Chavez stole the vote. I think he had more than enough of a base to win the elections. Even without all the fishy “cedulacion” (nationalization) of thousands of Lybians, Colombians and Cubans, the people being bused to electoral centers, the dead voters and multiple registrations. He didn’t need any of that to win. But just because he was going to win anyways, that doesn’t mean we should let all the irregularities pass. He still needs to be kept honest. Otherwise you are paving the way for when he does need to commit fraud (if ever). Not every criticism of Chavez is following the opposition propaganda. That is just name calling, Chavez’s favourite tool of manipulation. [/QUOTE] Nope, the name calling is not againt you but finding what you are saying is even more dubious or a lie, as I said before, it is that kind of behavior that benefits Chavez. I do remember reading what the opposition said then and nothing turned to be what they said about the election. Confusing that into being a Chavez supporter is silly. ---
**Author:** ![lalenin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@lalenin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lalenin)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/96 "2007-06-01T15:10:19Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] Not every criticism of Chavez is following the opposition propaganda. That is just name calling, Chavez’s favourite tool of manipulation. [/QUOTE] This is the exact same criticism of anyone who speaks out against Fidel Castro. If you do so you’re accused of being a paid mercenary, or one of the Miami Mafia, or demonized some other way. Bu what is wrong with saying the same things that the opposition propaganda is saying? Just because it is being said by the opposition does not make it a lie. In these boards anything said by Fox news is automatically seen as suspect because it follows the US government line. I find it ironic that the opposite standard is applied to the Chavez government, where anything said by the anti-government chanels is suspect. Edit: I’m not sure if that makes sense, I’m thinking in Spanish and translating on the fly. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/97 "2007-06-01T16:03:53Z")
[QUOTE=GIGObuster] Nope, the name calling is not againt you but finding what you are saying is even more dubious or a lie, as I said before, it is that kind of behavior that benefits Chavez. I do remember reading what the opposition said then and nothing turned to be what they said about the election. Confusing that into being a Chavez supporter is silly. [/QUOTE] fair enough. I would still like to hear a response to my take on the Carter approval of an electoral process they couldn’t possibly scrutinize ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/98 "2007-06-01T16:10:20Z")
si señor. That kills me every time you are trying to make some sense in a debate and some nutjob comes and takes your side. Then your position gets “averaged out” to less than it was. Argh!. Sometimes idiots say thing that are right. That doesn’t make these things any less right. The opposition in Venezuela would be comical if the hopes of getting rid of Chavez didn’t ride on their backs. They can’t claw their way out of a wet paper bag. That doesn’t make Chavez good, though. Having no viable alternatives means we have to endure Chavez but not that we need to celebrate his faults. Just like, just because Chavez is the devil himself, that doesn’t mean that everything he does is evil and wrong. He is capable of right and has shown it several times. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/99 "2007-06-01T21:03:37Z")
[QUOTE=Sapo] fair enough. I would still like to hear a response to my take on the Carter approval of an electoral process they couldn’t possibly scrutinize [/QUOTE] [http://www.cartercenter.org/news/documents/doc1801.html](http://www.cartercenter.org/news/documents/doc1801.html) > [@](#): > > We were out early on election morning and were amazed at the incredibly large turnout, with thousands of people waiting in line an hour before polls were scheduled to open. **Venezuela has a system of electronic voting (with a paper ballot backup) and voters’ thumbprints are recorded electronically, transmitted by satellite, and compared almost instantaneously to prevent multiple voting.** A “No” vote supported Chavez, and a “Yes” vote called for his removal from office. Starting was somewhat slow, but 99.5 percent of the voting machines were on the line by 10:30 a.m. Some of the fingerprint operators did not report for duty, but this was not permitted to interfere with voting. The great waiting crowds were in fine spirits, cheering loudly everywhere we showed up. > > During the day, the opposition leaders presented to us and their supporters what turned out to be **erroneous** exit polling data that showed Chavez losing the vote by 20 points or more, and they also sent this information to their own people and to foreign news media. However, the news media honored the CNE ruling against broadcasting any kind of alleged voting results domestically. In the meantime, long voter lines remained intact past the 4 p.m. closing time, past an extended 8 p.m. closing time, and until midnight, when they finally closed. A few people voted as late as 3 a.m. > > \*\*At about 12:30 a.m., we and OAS leaders were invited to witness the disclosure of the first electronic tabulation, which showed “No” votes at 57 percent and “Yes” votes at 43 percent among the 6.6 million votes counted at that time (of 10.5 million expected to vote). Gaviria and I decided to invite the private media owners and opposition leaders to my hotel suite to let them know about this and to tell them that this was compatible with our own quick count results. The media owners and some of the opposition said they would accept our judgment while others were angry. \*\* We urged them to check their own sample voting results and stated that we would obtain updated figures next morning before making a public declaration of our judgment. We were in Venezuela to remain neutral, to observe the electoral system, and to make a careful and sound final assessment regarding whether the will of the people is expressed. Chavez called me, and I urged him to wait on any claim of victory until after a CNE public announcement and to be generous and positive in his victory statement. He promised to do so. > > **Finally, after three hours, we offered to the still irate opposition leaders our services in resolving any of their remaining doubts before we had to leave (after two more days). Having insisted all during election day on a 20 point defeat for Chavez, their pollster (Súmate) admitted before leaving that their data now showed only a five point defeat and that quick count data were still being received.** Early the next morning, they reported that these results were reversed, with 55 percent supporting Chavez, but opposition leaders still were claiming massive fraud and a victory for their side. Final voting results, including the centers with manual ballots, showed 59-41 in favor of Chavez, with his victory in 22 of the 24 states. > > \*\*Gaviria and I had another press conference early in the afternoon on Monday to confirm the legitimacy of the CNE returns. I called Secretary of State Colin Powell to report our authentication of results, and he promised to issue a statement from Washington endorsing our findings. \*\* > > On Monday, we had supper with Chavez and found him eager to begin substantive dialogues with responsible opposition leaders who are willing to reciprocate. We urged him to show generosity to Súmate and some others who are being accused of crimes going back to the coup against him and to ensure a balanced membership of CNE as local and state elections are planned late in September. He was receptive to these suggestions and supported an additional audit of electronic paper ballot backups from the machines that would assuage any remaining doubters. > > **Although the country was peaceful, some opposition leaders were still in anguish, as indicated by Tuesday morning newspaper editorial headlines, “Catástrofe,” “El Fraude Permanente,” and “Serias Dudas.” After meeting with Súmate and other opposition representatives who claimed there were differences between paper ballot backups and electronically transmitted results, we agreed to have a second audit process to double check the correlation. We made it clear to them and to the public that this did not imply any doubt by The Carter Center or OAS regarding the integrity of the electoral process or the accuracy of the reported results.** > > After making these arrangements, we met with Catholic bishops and then had a final supper with a group of about 20 empresarios. > > **Jennifer McCoy and Rachel Fowler stayed in Caracas to oversee the second audit of the machines that we will do with the OAS and the CNE**. The funny thing is that I never before checked the Carter center report, because I found plenty of evidence elsewhere to know already that the opposition tried to pull a fast one. All the information I got was from seeing the Venezuelan press, Spanish TV and Venezuelan blogs, (both in favor and against of Chavez) my conclusion then: In the matter of the elections the opposition did lie. Based on what I read on the blogs, the idea was to trip Carter and other media into publishing the false polling information to then report that fraud was happening and justify yet another coup. (Cue then round ups, mass disappearings of people and real oppression of the media against the new regime) Carter just did not want to play their game. ---
**Author:** ![medstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f07891/32.png) [@medstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/medstar)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2007, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263/100 "2007-06-02T00:03:52Z")
I was wondering, with the government takeover of RCTV, do most Venezuelans have access to the internet and to satellite TV so they can see news from other countries and have an idea about what is really going on? Or do most of the people have no access to accurate news reporting other than government owned TV stations? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hugo-chavez-shutting-down-radio-caracas-television/404263.md?page=6)