# Huh? Mods still not banning Say Two yet? Say what? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [January 28, 2021, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699 "2021-01-28T17:43:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/101 "2021-01-29T17:28:46Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > I don’t see any reports of that thread for the past 4 days or so at least. I’m not going to go back and sort through it now, but given the OP feel free to report any posts that you believe are inappropriate (using “Something Else” to indicate the reason). Going forward, I’ll moderate it to GQ standards. Opinionating can be modded as a hijack. However, mind that this cuts both ways, and both sides of the discussion will be modded the same way. I have tagged that thread as “factual.” Thanks for that. I don’t see any point in looking at old posts; but just to make sure that, going forward, people are aware of the clarified status of the thread, would it be possible (at your convenience) to stick a note in there to point the status out? Thanks again, j ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/102 "2021-01-29T17:33:19Z")
Done. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/103 "2021-01-29T17:34:43Z")
I saw. Hopefully that will keep it on the rails. Thanks. j ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/104 "2021-01-29T17:58:24Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > The hell it does. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Allowing _is_ a kind of support. Is your sole goal self-validation that what you call “open racism, open transphobia, open bigotry” is such? Only having interactions with those of self-same assessments? You don’t fight much ignorance that way. Dealing only with those as rock solid sure of your exact interpretation of others and conclusions will change the minds of exactly zero people. Who needs to be, if not part of the conversation at least listening to it, to have any chance of impacting the interpretations and conclusions that others make? Mostly intelligent enough people who are open to arguments and who have not concluded the same as you have, may have no conclusion yet at all, or only a tentative one, and are open to arguments and information that may convince them. Here I will be immodest enough to categorize myself as “intelligent enough”. Through the years here there have been a fair number of subjects that I started reading about that I had started out thinking about one way, and as a result of having my ignorance reduced with good arguments and facts, I moved into a different position. I hope but am less sure that I’ve provided good arguments and facts to being a pebble in moving other people along the way on some things as well. Hope springs eternal. What do those people need to experience to be so moved? A groupthink that brooks no alternative interpretations and views? They can get that in any FB feed: Like! Me too! Preach it! Reinforcing silos of _extant_ beliefs. No. They need to hear better arguments made and what feels to be an honest and fair critical assessment of the facts presented. Such does not require tolerating true hate speech. It allows for shutting down hijackers who make every thread about X or Y and ignore every response. It however cannot happen if the board requires the witnessing of (declared) “correct thought” that some here want here and impose upon it by the weight of their obnoxiousness. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/105 "2021-01-29T19:51:52Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Is your sole goal self-validation that what you call “open racism, open transphobia, open bigotry” is such? Only having interactions with those of self-same assessments? Just a few days ago **MrDibble** stated here in ATMB that stuff he doesnt agree with is morally wrong. He thus, is right- if you disagree with him, you are wrong. Opinions are not a thing on major issues, apparently. Thus on any important issue it is pointless to debate with him- he is right, you are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/106 "2021-01-29T19:54:14Z")
It appears I have summoned Beetlejuice. Oops. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/107 "2021-01-29T19:56:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Just a few days ago **MrDibble** stated here in ATMB that stuff he doesnt agree with is morally wrong. He thus, is right- if you disagree with him, you are wrong. Opinions are not a thing on major issues, apparently. Thus on any important issue it is pointless to debate with him- he is right, you are wrong. He has also stated that if he ran a board, he would ban anyone who disagreed with him. That’s certainly not the kind of board we want. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/108 "2021-01-29T19:57:07Z")
So very true. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/109 "2021-01-29T19:59:36Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > Greetings . . . > & thanks for the reminder of the thread I started . . . > . > Question: in light of > > [links removed by moderator] > > Do you believe that airliners were used as weapons on 9/11/2001 ? Moderating. This discussion most certainly does not belong in this thread. I have removed your links. I am instructing you not to try to hijack this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/110 "2021-01-29T20:16:31Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > it was BB who was engaging in poor debating techniques and ST was on solid ground. …I’m not the subject of this thread. If you think my debate technique is poor then you are welcome to either address it in the relevant thread so I can properly defend myself or you can take it to the pit. But I’m not going to hijack this thread to address this, so pick your forum. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/111 "2021-01-29T20:21:46Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Is your sole goal self-validation that what you call “open racism, open transphobia, open bigotry” is such? Only having interactions with those of self-same assessments? If by “self-same assessments” you mean no racists, transphobes and bigots, then hell, yes. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/112 "2021-01-29T20:23:48Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > He has also stated that if he ran a board, he would ban anyone who disagreed with him. …about fundamental issues like racism, transphobia, bigotry. I could give a fuck if someone disagrees with me on many of my stances, like anarchism, pacifism or taxing the rich. My statement wasn’t about all disagreement. It was about suffering evil. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/113 "2021-01-29T20:28:48Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Just a few days ago **MrDibble** stated here in ATMB that stuff he doesnt agree with is morally wrong. If you’re referring to [this post](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/clarification-requested-as-a-political-group-christians-are-sneaky-hypocritical-and-dishonest/931411/42), then you’ve badly mischaracterized it, to the point of outright fabrication. I distinctly said the equivalent of “_some_ stuff I disagree with” ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/114 "2021-01-29T20:52:55Z")
No that it is not what it means. It means as written - > [@DSeid](#): > > that what you call “open racism, open transphobia, open bigotry” is such Can you parse the difference? ---
**Author:** ![FigNorton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fignorton/32/5619_2.png) [@FigNorton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FigNorton)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/115 "2021-01-29T20:53:30Z")
There’s plenty of internet spaces that are upfront about being racist and bigot free. This place never has been, afaik. What brings you here rather than those places? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/116 "2021-01-29T21:38:18Z")
Some stuff sure, like major issues as i posted “anti-abortion stance. Or a Pro-choice stance. Those are reasonable points on which people can disagree. Same with anti-gun and pro-gun (to an extent) or pre-fracking and anti fracking or pro nuclear power and anti-nuclear power.” You said anyone who disagrees with you on, for example- abortion- is wrong and 'bad". ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/117 "2021-01-29T22:26:06Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > If someone makes a claim that science is coming around to a consensus then he might be asked for examples of scientists or scientific bodies which validate that claim. That’s not the same thing as asking him for examples of countries which back up that science (more below). […] What you’re doing now is shifting to other supposed problems with ST’s position in that thread. But that would not validate your original post here, in which you claimed that ST’s refusal to comment on the specifics of school closures in a couple of countries picked by BB were “bad argument form”. I suspect you may have misinterpreted **Banquet\_Bear** ’s post #1316. That post does _not_ ask for examples of countries whose actions back up scientific consensus. It asked if the actions of two specific countries runs counter to the scientific consensus **SayTwo** asserted the existence of. The relevant part of that post reads thus, > > **SayTwo** : But I think the science is coming around to a consensus that the closures are no longer worth it. > > **Banquet\_Bear** : Were the UK wrong to close their schools a few weeks ago? Was Sweden wrong to close some schools in November? **Banquet\_Bear** could as easily have asked, “were the recent closures in the UK and Sweden worth it, according to the scientific consensus?” This is an attempt to test **SayTwo** ’s general argument by applying it to specific examples. Logically speaking, if the scientific consensus is that all closures are no longer worth it, it follows that recent closures in the UK and Sweden were not worth it. That’s why I wrote that **Banquet\_Bear** was attempting to poke holes in **SayTwo** ’s general argument. There’s nothing disingenuous going on here; if you assert that scientific consensus says all X are Y, it is a valid rhetorical strategy to ask if scientific consensus says specific X are Y. **SayTwo** pleads ignorance of the specific contexts surrounding the UK and Sweden. That doesn’t prove **SayTwo** a troll or even that the general argument is generally wrong, IMO; however, it does lower **SayTwo** ’s credibility, significantly. One factor in the loss of credibility is that **SayTwo** previously cited Sweden to support an earlier claim that closing schools had “no measurable direct impact on the number of laboratory confirmed cases in school-aged children”. Direct quote of inline citation, post #28, October. _And especially the followup post #36 where **SayTwo** chides **Czarcasm** for assuming he/she doesn’t keep up with all the relevant reports on Sweden and other countries_. Why would **SayTwo** be comfortable citing Sweden in October, but unable to say whether Sweden’s actions in December were consistent with the (presumed) scientific consensus? The way I see it, **SayTwo** just doesn’t know what he or she is talking about. There are other explanations but I think they are even less favorable. Another factor - a minor one - is **SayTwo** ’s failure to back up the assertion of consensus. This wasn’t ever explicitly asked for, but if I found myself asked whether the scientific consensus agreed with a particular action, and I was unable to find out enough about the context to make that determination, I would try and say “well, I don’t know enough about the context but here’s some info on the scientific consensus and maybe we can work it out.” **SayTwo** didn’t do that, and instead just said ‘I really don’t know’. I consider that bad form and count it against his/her credibility. Slightly. I will repeat that none of this proves **SayTwo** ’s assertion about a scientific consensus wrong. It doesn’t prove that **SayTwo** is a troll. All it does is lower his or her credibility, and that was my main point: the lack of credibility approaches speculation. Credibility is the difference between speculation and informed opinions. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/118 "2021-01-29T23:25:09Z")
So for limited values of “stuff” to mean this one thing. And it’s abundantly clear from his whole post that he’s extending it to mean people who would prevent women from making choices about their own body. It was an extremely broad brush paraphrase that truly distorted his meaning, in my opinion. I’m not sure doubling down is the best path. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2021, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/119 "2021-01-29T23:38:38Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > This is an attempt to test **SayTwo** ’s general argument by applying it to specific examples. …thank you for clarifying my point. And just to expand on this further: this wasn’t the first time I had asked the very same questions to SayTwo. Without going back and counting: I think I had put the very same questions to SayTwo in three different threads, about fifteen different times, and this was the first time he actually answered me. For example in the thread about Sweden: > [@Sweden do-nothing approach good, US/UK/other countries' early do-nothing approach bad. Why?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/819): > > And here we are with yet more evidence to support the claim that **every country that closed schools got it wrong** , and Sweden got it right. > [@Sweden do-nothing approach good, US/UK/other countries' early do-nothing approach bad. Why?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/820): > > …nope. The study does **not** support this. The study says **nothing at all** about the countries that **did** close their schools. It only looks at the period between **March and June** in Sweden. It only looks at the children and doesn’t look at anybody who may have gotten Covid **from** the children. > > And of course there is this. [edited out link to cite that shows Sweden closed some schools in November] Jump to: > [@Sweden do-nothing approach good, US/UK/other countries' early do-nothing approach bad. Why?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/sweden-do-nothing-approach-good-us-uk-other-countries-early-do-nothing-approach-bad-why/850962/824): > > …New Zealand closed their schools during Level 4 lockdown back in March. If we ever go back into Level 4 (which doesn’t look likely) we would close the schools again. > > Did New Zealand get it wrong, and would it be wrong to close down again if we hit Level 4 again? > > **The UK have just closed schools again . Covid is wildly out of control over there. Were they wrong? Should they open the schools?** > > **Sweden have closed some schools for the first time due to the pandemic. Are they wrong? Should they reopen?** > > The New Zealand experience showed that the best way to stop children being out of school for an extended period of time (and suffering from it) was to close almost **everything down** for a **non-extended period of time** to **break the chains of transmission**. Was that, in your opinion, the wrong thing to do? Did we get it wrong? So to summarize: SayTwo claimed every country that closed their schools fucked up. (They later did concede that this was a “rhetorical rebuttal.”) In a thread about Sweden in which SayTwo argued that “Sweden hadn’t fucked up because they didn’t close their schools” I asked “but they did close some schools: were they wrong to do so?” SayTwo didn’t answer me there. And didn’t answer me the many other times the same question was put to them. So the most recent exchange that has been quoted here **lacks that additional context.** And SayTwo’s response to me when he finally **did** answer that question demonstrates the degree to which SayTwo’s participation in QZ is **entirely disingenuous**. After arguing **for months** that “Sweden got it right” for not closing their schools, when asked “were they right or wrong to close some schools in November” his reply was that he couldn’t answer it because he “can’t find a cite for it.” That he didn’t " know enough about the context." Then SayTwo pivoted to “its not the context, but the leaders.” So I asked him did Boris Johnson get it right? The response: > [@Am I missing something here? (re: reopening of bars, etc... now)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-here-re-reopening-of-bars-etc-now/922356/1328): > > I already told you that I do not have an informed opinion on that. I still don’t. And then we get another pivot: > [@Am I missing something here? (re: reopening of bars, etc... now)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-here-re-reopening-of-bars-etc-now/922356/1330): > > . **It is long-term school closures,** particularly in places without rampant or fast-growing spread, that are – in my opinion, which I hope you’ll allow me to have! – more harmful than helpful. > [@Am I missing something here? (re: reopening of bars, etc... now)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-here-re-reopening-of-bars-etc-now/922356/1331): > > …which specific closures are you talking about? > [@Am I missing something here? (re: reopening of bars, etc... now)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-here-re-reopening-of-bars-etc-now/922356/1332): > > I’m talking about all of them. There are no long-term school closures that appear to be worth the devastation they are causing. > [@Am I missing something here? (re: reopening of bars, etc... now)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/am-i-missing-something-here-re-reopening-of-bars-etc-now/922356/1333): > > …name **one**. For the record: SayTwo did not name one long-term school closure. SayTwo has a very clear agenda. Its anti-mask, anti-lockdown, anti-public health, and SayTwo is using covid-truther talking points to obscure the fact that he has no facts. Its propaganda. And the boards shouldn’t be giving him a platform. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2021, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699/120 "2021-01-30T00:30:50Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > SayTwo is using covid-truther talking points to obscure the fact that he has no facts. I don’t think SayTwo is doing much at all to obscure his lack of facts. I stopped participating in that thread quite some time ago, because of SayTwo, but I still read it. From time to time I think making a post quoting every time he’s been asked for a cite and didn’t provide one. But that seems like a task bigger than what I care to take on. Besides, it’s not like it would change anything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-mods-still-not-banning-say-two-yet-say-what/931699.md?page=7)