# Huh? The Carnivora Got REordered? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 5, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-the-carnivora-got-reordered/444114 "2008-04-05T20:33:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 2\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-the-carnivora-got-reordered/444114/1 "2008-04-05T20:33:32Z")
Over in the “tusks” thread, someone (I believe it was Shagnasty but didn’t make a note, and can’t go back while prepping a new GQ thread) gave the derivation of various tusked animals, and said in part: > [@Shagnasty (I think)](#): > > …walruses from the same suborder that produced bears, raccoons, and dogs… Okay, when I learned this, Carnivora was broken down: Suborder Pinnipedia, the marine carnivores —Family Otariidae, the “true” seals —Family Odobenidae, the sea lions and fur seals —a third family consisting of the walrus …A small foofaraw about possible separate origins for the three families got resolved as to monophyly. Suborder Fissipedia, the land carnivores -Superfamily (or Infraorder) Feloidea —Family Viverridae, the civets, genets, mongooses, and fossa —Family Hyaenidae, the hyenas and aardwolf —Family Felidae, the cats, large and small -Superfamily (or Infraorder) Canoidea —Family Mustelidae, the weasels and their allies ------various subfamilies, some elevated to family status by some authorities, for things like the skunk, the wolverine, the honey badger, etc. —Family Procyonidae, the raccoons, with the two pandas either part of this family or given separate status, or the giant panda considered an ursid and the lesser panda a procyonid —Family Ursidae, the bears —Family Canida, the dogs, wolves, foxes, and their allies Both groups have extinct families as well;’ the only one I’m certain of is the Arctocyonidae, the hulking “bear-dogs” of the later Tertiary. It appears here that somebody’s done one of those DNA-tracer upset-the-applecart reclassifications, and moved the walruses into the Canoidea, elevating that into a Suborder, presumably as opposed to Feloidea. Anyone want to essay what’s the story behind this? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2008, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/huh-the-carnivora-got-reordered/444114/2 "2008-04-05T21:07:25Z")
It wouldn’t be just the walruses; it’s the pinnipeds in general. From [here](http://animaldiversity.ummz.umich.edu/site/accounts/information/Carnivora.html) > [@](#): > > Most systematists agree that carnivorans can be divided into two groups, the dog-like (caniform or Caniformia) and cat-like (feliform or Feliformia) families. However, there is considerable disagreement over how carnivoran families are related to each other, especially with respect to pinnipeds (the seals, sea lions, and walruses). \*\*Currently, the most strongly supported pattern of relationships places pinnipeds as a monophyletic group within the caniform lineage. \*\*The sister group to this clade is the superfamily Musteloidea, which includes red pandas (Ailuridae), skunks (Mephitidae), raccoons (Procyonidae), and weasels (Mustelidae). Canids appear as an early offshoot of the caniform lineage (Flynn et al. 2005). Some authorities, however, consider pinnipeds a monophyletic lineage sister to all other living carnivores (Feliformia and Caniformia), and place it in a separate order, Pinnipedia. Others suggest that marine species were derived at least twice, with one lineage (perhaps derived from ursids) leading to sea lions and walruses, and the other (perhaps derived from mustelids) giving rise to true seals. Bolding mine. I’m not sure what the latest is on this. However, AFAIK the third hypothesis, that pinnipeds are not monophyletic, has largely been discarded.