# Human Branching **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 15, 2004, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395 "2004-06-15T00:04:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/41 "2004-06-15T02:56:52Z")
> [@hellothere](#): > > 1. Calling people from an existing branch of the human race, racists, simply for thinking about and wanting to mate within their branch. Doing that is pure and simple minded hate. There is a distinct difference between “thinking about and mating within their branch” and “specifically and intentionally avoiding people of other branches and treating them differently” As brought up in the two threads I posted at the beginning of this one - no one - NO ONE - is stopping anyone from “thinking about and mating within their branch.” To my knowledge, no one has been forced by any agency outside of family pressure to marry anyone outside of their race. In fact, most couples are intraracial, and are quite happy, as is society. Some people find little specific aesthetic value in other branches, but they do not treat them differently than they do someone aesthetically unappealing within their own branch. There is a line you cross when you begin treating people from other branches differently than people within your own branch that becomes racism. ---
**Author:** ![hellothere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9de053/32.png) [@hellothere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellothere)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/42 "2004-06-15T02:58:05Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > How is that racial hatred? I never targetted a race. I targetted a way of thinking that happens to be racist. > > At least you did more than parrot a URL this time. Impressive. Maybe you can stop defining things based on your site, and recognize a snarky comment for a snarky comment now. C’mon, you can try! I said “inciting racial hatred.” I hardly suggested that you, Zagadka, had one drop of hatred towards anybody. But you do wish to incite hatred against any given branch of the human race that likes to think about their genetics, their aggregate phenotypes. Why do you do this? The most fundamental question is this: “Why do you fear the branching human race?” ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/43 "2004-06-15T03:04:32Z")
> [@hellothere](#): > > The most fundamental question is this: “Why do you fear the branching human race?” I don’t. I fear segregation and prejudice. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/44 "2004-06-15T03:12:18Z")
> [@hellothere](#): > > Brainglutton, these are the fundamental issues: > > Extreme multi-racialism: Please examine the definition of multi-racialism to avoid confusion here. Following is a list of items describing multi-racial extremism, and you’ll discover that it mirrors extreme racism. > > 1. Expressing negative, or hateful thoughts and words towards somebody from any of the classic branches of the human race. The thoughts are expressed in a way suggesting that because this person does not fall into the broad category of “multi-racial,” there is something wrong with them, they are somehow “lesser,” they are without “flavor,” etc… But who actually says that? That “purebred” people, such as – I don’t know, maybe the Japanese, or the Icelanders – hard to think of any others – are somehow inferior to mixed-race people? Nobody I’ve ever met or read or heard of! > [@hellothere](#): > > 1. Expressing the notion that nobody should even think about human genetic branching and population diversity, and that we should all exclude those thoughts from our minds. This then leads to direct verbal hatred expressed towards people who do enjoy, accept and understand human genetic branching. Anything is open for discussion, including the distinctive psychological characteristics, if any, of different racial groups. What most people find objectionable nowadays is the idea that any kind of articificial legal or social barriers should be erected to prevent race-mixing. > [@hellothere](#): > > 1. Calling people from an existing branch of the human race, racists, simply for thinking about and wanting to mate within their branch. Doing that is pure and simple minded hate. Once again, who actually says that? I’ve never, ever heard anybody criticized for wanting to marry someone of their own color, or ethnic subculture, or religious group, or whatever. People only get mad when you actually raise an objection to marriage **across** those lines. ---
**Author:** ![hellothere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9de053/32.png) [@hellothere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellothere)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/45 "2004-06-15T03:35:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, of course not. It happens all the time. So what exactly is the issue for debate? You don’t exactly seem to arguing for the value of artificially preserving the “genetic distances” between racial groups – or are you? I am suggesting what is. Human life branches genetically. We simply need to teach kids about that. Teach them about the genetic differences that exist. I know this scares people, but it’s the truth and we simply need to accept it and move on. Once we teach kids the truth about genetic life, they can make their choices. ---
**Author:** ![hellothere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9de053/32.png) [@hellothere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellothere)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/46 "2004-06-15T03:38:06Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > I don’t. I fear segregation and prejudice. Glad to have you onboard. Now we just need to start teaching all kids about the branching human race in addition to all the other things we teach them today about “race” relations. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/47 "2004-06-15T03:40:43Z")
> [@hellothere](#): > > Glad to have you onboard. > > Now we just need to start teaching all kids about the branching human race in addition to all the other things we teach them today about “race” relations. The only thing I was taught, and not at any government institution, was that we are all equal, and build on that. If you want to go around telling kids that they are free to marry within their “branch,” trhen you may, I have nothing against that. Then again, they know that anyway, and no one is telling them otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![pizzabrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9c0ed/32.png) [@pizzabrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pizzabrat)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/48 "2004-06-15T03:42:57Z")
I noticed your essay didn’t touch at all on con-jovial racism, and following, con-jovial multiracialism. Assuming retroracialprobagation to be a constant in the race-raque-nucleic continum, and thus making deflected racialoid properties by definition completely relative; I find that to be a glaring omission. Even more complicating to your theory is the recently discovered Rashton’s Law of cyracialtronic multi-plane rendering, which makes multi-racialism _AND_ absolute racism protonically impossible to recreate in the ultra-cognative plane (though the word is still out on the trans-cognative plane). Basically, you’re going to have to work on your theory a bit more. ---
**Author:** ![hellothere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9de053/32.png) [@hellothere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellothere)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/49 "2004-06-15T03:55:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > But who actually says that? That “purebred” people, such as – I don’t know, maybe the Japanese, or the Icelanders – hard to think of any others – are somehow inferior to mixed-race people? Nobody I’ve ever met or read or heard of! . It is said now and again… here and there… implied. I’d say you have to look for it to notice it. But it definately permeates our culture today. It’s not a blatant statement of “you are inferior.” It’s a not so subtle drumbeat. “White boys can’t jump” - that’s the only example I’ll provide. But there are many… I’m sure you can think of a few more. > [@](#): > > Anything is open for discussion, including the distinctive psychological characteristics, if any, of different racial groups. What most people find objectionable nowadays is the idea that any kind of articificial legal or social barriers should be erected to prevent race-mixing. We are in 100% agreement here… part of the branching human race IS multi-racialism… but anything can be taken to an extreme position. If there is one thing that the human race has learned, it’s that people will sometimes become extreme - no matter what the topic. > [@](#): > > Once again, who actually says that? I’ve never, ever heard anybody criticized for wanting to marry someone of their own color, or ethnic subculture, or religious group, or whatever. People only get mad when you actually raise an objection to marriage **across** those lines This happens less than the first item… but it does happen. I’ve had it happen to me. A multi-racial guy Thai-European, called me a racist nazi because I suggested I’d like to find a nice northern European girl to love and create kids with. I had a multi-racial girl say a similar thing to me… and several other events… Also, watch how Zagadka responds to this now that I’ve admited that I’m from the euopean group. I have experienced this type of hatred my whole life and given none to anybody, ever. This is what extreme multi-racialism is. It’s a very real issue - though not as serious as the confused genuine racist people that exist… but I think it may be getting there in some ways. There seems to be loads of hatred for the concept of human genetic branching. Any time the word “Genetic” is thrown, a lot of people immediately access their memories and think, eugenics, etc… I think this says it best: “Many people have an irrational fear of human genetic branching because they associate it with racism. To fear human genetic branching is to fear life, itself.” Good night everybody “Let us never again allow elite racist type people to gather the reigns of power into their hands and tell us how to exist.” Me, 2004 ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/50 "2004-06-15T03:56:20Z")
> [@hellothere](#): > > I am suggesting what is. Human life branches genetically. We simply need to teach kids about that. Teach them about the genetic differences that exist. I know this scares people, but it’s the truth and we simply need to accept it and move on. > > Once we teach kids the truth about genetic life, they can make their choices. I still don’t get, **hellothere.** The historical fact is that human life **no longer** branches genetically. Differences emerged between isolated human gene-pools that were separated by vast distances. Ever since then, it’s been no branching, only more and more convergence. After the neolithic period, civilizations emerged, there was more travel back and forth, invasions, wars, mass movements of populations, and groups started to mix. And then the Age of Exploration opened in the 15th Century and the process accelerated. Only a very few human regional populations of the world have anything like the “pure” genetic makeup they may have had in the distant past. Humanity almost certainly will not start “branching” again unless and until we establish colonies in other solar systems, colonies isolated from Earth by the impossibility of faster-than-light travel; and it’s far too soon to even worry about that. And the scientific fact is that the “genetic differences that exist” are purely physical and, for the most part, cosmetic. There is no hard scientific evidence of any important **psychological** differences between different gene-pools. Lots of theorists have posited such differences and none of those theories have held up under scrutiny. The _Bell Curve_ hypothesis, for instance, has been pretty thoroughly discredited. And children are taught both of those sets of facts, historical and scientific. What would you teach them, that they are not being taught already? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/51 "2004-06-15T04:03:57Z")
> [@hellothere](#): > > It is said now and again… here and there… implied. I’d say you have to look for it to notice it. But it definately permeates our culture today. It’s not a blatant statement of “you are inferior.” It’s a not so subtle drumbeat. > > “White boys can’t jump” - that’s the only example I’ll provide. But there are many… I’m sure you can think of a few more. Such a statement is based on a truism. African atheletes tend to be better at running and jumping than stockier white atheletes. It also is not a derogatory comment, unless you put unusual stock in your ability to jump. > [@](#): > > Also, watch how Zagadka responds to this now that I’ve admited that I’m from the euopean group. _sits here and blinks_ To be absolutely fair, I did make that assumption in the first place. I also assumed that you are a straight male, if that doesn’t bother you. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/52 "2004-06-15T05:16:52Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Such a statement is based on a truism. African atheletes tend to be better at running and jumping than stockier white atheletes. It also is not a derogatory comment, unless you put unusual stock in your ability to jump. Is that really what you meant to say? Do you have a cite to back up that claim? Or did you mean that tall, African athletes are better jumpers than short European athletes, and vice versa? That it is the height of the athlete, and not their geographic origin that is the key factor. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/53 "2004-06-15T05:22:16Z")
As for human branching… I wish all you “branchers” luck. The last time the human line actually “branched” into a different species was about 600k years ago (current esitmates of the Neanderthal/Sapens split). My guess is that it would take about that long for you to do it again. Keeping yourselves genetically isolated from the rest of the world for 600k years should be a piece of cake… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/54 "2004-06-15T06:21:47Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Ummmm…google ‘multiracialism’ gets nearly 3000 hits : :dubious: Psh. Enter the new age, man- this is EXTREME multi-racialism! Bigger prizes, better looking hosts, and better-written white supremacist literature! > [@hellothere](#): > > “White boys can’t jump” - that’s the only example I’ll provide. But there are many… I’m sure you can think of a few more. Possibly because, well, that’s the only example you’ve got. I mean, you _do_ hear that “whites are stupid” or “I wish that damn white guy would get a job and stop leeching off us black folk” _all the time_, but nobody pays any attention to that, right? I completely see your point, though. Every time I hear about lazy Mexicans I think to myself, boy, that’s not nearly as bad as the stuff they say about _white_ people… ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/55 "2004-06-15T08:09:14Z")
Can somebody please wake me up either when the dancing girls arrive or when the OP succinctly states his/her position, without all this vague rambling and dodging? ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/56 "2004-06-15T10:39:59Z")
> [@hellothere](#): > > Are you referring to the admission fee to this board? The straight dope? Yes, I am. If this follows the usual course, you’ll make your statements, which will seem sincere although misguided, but as the FREE trial limit comes closer and closer to ending; you’ll show your true colors and go out in a blaze of ugly, racist banning bile. I simply suggest, if you’re **serious** about discussing this with a wide array of differing opinions, you pony up the subscription price. put up or shut up. ---
**Author:** ![SentientMeat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/43a26b/32.png) [@SentientMeat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SentientMeat)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2004, 10:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/57 "2004-06-15T10:53:07Z")
**hellothere** , are you proposing any kind of taxon below the level of ‘species’ which is universal to that taxonomic group and manifests itself in **more than one** superficial characteristic such as eye or hair colour or epidermal melanin level? ---
**Author:** ![hellothere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9de053/32.png) [@hellothere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellothere)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/58 "2004-06-16T00:45:59Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Yes, I am. > > If this follows the usual course, you’ll make your statements, which will seem sincere although misguided, but as the FREE trial limit comes closer and closer to ending; you’ll show your true colors and go out in a blaze of ugly, racist banning bile. > > I simply suggest, if you’re **serious** about discussing this with a wide array of differing opinions, you pony up the subscription price. > > put up or shut up. You have a discusting intellect, and if it doesn’t improve, what is the point in me attempting to talk with you? I certainly would not give a mind like yours money - assuming you are a partial owner of this board. ---
**Author:** ![hellothere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9de053/32.png) [@hellothere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellothere)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/59 "2004-06-16T00:48:53Z")
> [@SentientMeat](#): > > **hellothere** , are you proposing any kind of taxon below the level of ‘species’ which is universal to that taxonomic group and manifests itself in **more than one** superficial characteristic such as eye or hair colour or epidermal melanin level? Superficial has a precise connotation of things that are “insignificant.” Regardless of how you mean it, that’s how people perceive it. If you think genetic difference between human beings are “superficial” then you are not sane. I cannot have a conversation with someone who is not sane. ---
**Author:** ![hellothere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9de053/32.png) [@hellothere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellothere)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/60 "2004-06-16T00:50:10Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Can somebody please wake me up either when the dancing girls arrive or when the OP succinctly states his/her position, without all this vague rambling and dodging? I wrote the [humanbranching.com](http://humanbranching.com) website and I’m seeing what you think of it. If you perceive this as vague and rambling, then I can’t help you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395.md?page=4)