# Human Branching **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 15, 2004, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395 "2004-06-15T00:04:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/61 "2004-06-16T00:50:54Z")
> [@hellothere](#): > > You have a discusting intellect, and if it doesn’t improve, what is the point in me attempting to talk with you? I certainly would not give a mind like yours money - assuming you are a partial owner of this board. [whisper]No, he’s just one of many suckers to be suckered by Cecil’s sucker. It is like a cult, with some of these people, and Cecil is their god. They make sacrifices of guests to Cecil. I don’t know if he’s a real man, or what. No one has ever seen him, but the leaders walk down from the mountain every so often with “His Words.” I’m an undercover reporter for the Post. Don’t tell them.[/whisper] ---
**Author:** ![hellothere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9de053/32.png) [@hellothere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellothere)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/62 "2004-06-16T00:54:45Z")
Possibly because, well, that’s the only example you’ve got. “White men can’t jump” “White boy” “White boys have no rhythm” “play that funky music white boy” “Stupid white males” There are plenty more but I don’t make it a point to write them all down… I’ll collect them now though as I hear them. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/63 "2004-06-16T00:55:00Z")
> [@hellothere](#): > > I wrote the [humanbranching.com](http://humanbranching.com) website and I’m seeing what you think of it. If you perceive this as vague and rambling, then I can’t help you. I’ve visited it and there’s too much waffle there for your point (if indeed you have one) to penetrate. Could you at least succinctly (in say, two or three sentences) sum up the essence of your views? Don’t feel you have to do this, though. ---
**Author:** ![hellothere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9de053/32.png) [@hellothere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellothere)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/64 "2004-06-16T00:57:35Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > As for human branching… > > I wish all you “branchers” luck. The last time the human line actually “branched” into a different species was about 600k years ago (current esitmates of the Neanderthal/Sapens split). My guess is that it would take about that long for you to do it again. Keeping yourselves genetically isolated from the rest of the world for 600k years should be a piece of cake… I never suggested speciation… you incorrectly arrived at that conclusion on your own. You are causing item #2 of extreme multi-racialism: 1. Expressing the notion that nobody should even think about human genetic branching and population diversity, and that we should all exclude those thoughts from our minds. This then leads to direct verbal hatred expressed towards people who do enjoy, accept and understand human genetic branching. ---
**Author:** ![hellothere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9de053/32.png) [@hellothere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellothere)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/65 "2004-06-16T01:04:55Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > To be absolutely fair, I did make that assumption in the first place. I also assumed that you are a straight male, if that doesn’t bother you. No, that hardly bothers me. Since you brought up the term “straight” here is a hypothesis: A genetic tendency exists that can develop into homosexual behavior depending on environmental influences. Thus it could also not develop into homosexual behavior with the appropriate influences. I don’t know the answer to this - I’m am suggesting it’s a valid hypothesis. I don’t plan to address this further I just decided to tell you since you decided it was important to tag the “straight” onto my label. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/66 "2004-06-16T01:05:13Z")
> [@hellothere](#): > > Possibly because, well, that’s the only example you’ve got. > > “White men can’t jump” > “White boy” > “White boys have no rhythm” > “play that funky music white boy” > “Stupid white males” > > There are plenty more but I don’t make it a point to write them all down… I’ll collect them now though as I hear them. Oh my god. I just realized. You’re SO RIGHT. The white man is completely repressed. I’m going to march out to my senator and protest the use of the word “white” with anything negative, or playing funky music. Well, congrats. You’ve demonstrated that your entire “philosophy” is based on being bitter about being white and being treated unfairly by the black man, who represses you at every turn. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/67 "2004-06-16T01:05:31Z")
> [@hellothere](#): > > I never suggested speciation… you incorrectly arrived at that conclusion on your own. You are causing item #2 of extreme multi-racialism: So, what is the point of “branching” if all you end up doing in the end is remixing with other “branches”? Why bother even worrying about it? ---
**Author:** ![hellothere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9de053/32.png) [@hellothere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellothere)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/68 "2004-06-16T01:07:28Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Yes, I am. > > If this follows the usual course, you’ll make your statements, which will seem sincere although misguided, but as the FREE trial limit comes closer and closer to ending; you’ll show your true colors and go out in a blaze of ugly, racist banning bile. > > I simply suggest, if you’re **serious** about discussing this with a wide array of differing opinions, you pony up the subscription price. > > put up or shut up. Almost forgot: You are also guilty of item #2 and #3 of extreme multi-racialism: 1. Expressing the notion that nobody should even think about human genetic branching and population diversity, and that we should all exclude those thoughts from our minds. This then leads to direct verbal hatred expressed towards people who do enjoy, accept and understand human genetic branching. 2. Calling people from an existing branch of the human race, racists, simply for thinking about and wanting to mate within their branch. Name-calling like that is pure and simple minded hate. You should be banned from this forum for “hate speech” at this point - but if it’s “your” forum, I guess that won’t be happening. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/69 "2004-06-16T01:09:56Z")
> [@hellothere](#): > > No, that hardly bothers me. Since you brought up the term “straight” here is a hypothesis: > > A genetic tendency exists that can develop into homosexual behavior depending on environmental influences. Thus it could also not develop into homosexual behavior with the appropriate influences. Hi, my name is hellothere, I like going around and making random hypothesis with absolutely no supporting evidence or facts, then refusing to discuss them. Sorry, that’s not how we do things here at GD. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/70 "2004-06-16T01:13:42Z")
> [@hellothere](#): > > You should be banned from this forum for “hate speech” at this point - but if it’s “your” forum, I guess that won’t be happening. You do know the definition of “hate speech”, correct? It isn’t “white boys can’t jump” or “you’re wrong and insane” ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/71 "2004-06-16T01:21:27Z")
I’m pretty sure I’ve seen this tactic before; it goes like this: - Make vague assertions, hoping that they will be misunderstood. - Brush off requests for further detail. Your readers will be inclined to make assumptions. - Ask for comments. - Point out that the assumptions made by the readers betray serious character flaws and/or reinforce your grand ytheory. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/72 "2004-06-16T01:31:47Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I’m pretty sure I’ve seen this tactic before; it goes like this: > > - Make vague assertions, hoping that they will be misunderstood. > - Brush off requests for further detail. Your readers will be inclined to make assumptions. > - Ask for comments. > - Point out that the assumptions made by the readers betray serious character flaws and/or reinforce your grand ytheory. You forgot - Come up with term implying that readers/the social norm is deviant and dangerous behavior - Imply that there is some overall enemy force behind The Cause, but never coem right out and say it ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/73 "2004-06-16T01:34:38Z")
> [@hellothere](#): > > You should be banned from this forum for “hate speech” at this point - but if it’s “your” forum, I guess that won’t be happening. Dude, just to point something out, none of us posters has a commercial interest in this site. Quite the opposite - we all paid 5 bucks (price now 15 bucks) to post here. For our sake, could you just say your argument. “This is my site, discuss” doesn’t really provoke debate. “I believe that \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_, and my evidence for this is \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_” is a good way to do so. For example, you could say “I believe that white people are discriminated against, and my evidence for this is phrases like ‘white men can’t jump’”. Give it a go if you want a serious discussion here. ---
**Author:** ![hellothere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9de053/32.png) [@hellothere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellothere)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/74 "2004-06-16T01:36:15Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I still don’t get, **hellothere.** The historical fact is that human life **no longer** branches genetically. Differences emerged between isolated human gene-pools that were separated by vast distances. Ever since then, it’s been no branching, only more and more convergence. Are you aware that in that statement, you have shown complete disrespect to every single Irish, Japanese, Danish, Nigerian, etc… couple in the world? Seriously, are you aware of what you just said? To make a statement that holds that level of ignorance requires that you absolutely disrespect human genetic branching - or, you have been highly misguided by the few scientific “thinkers” who’s agenda is anti-branching, so they carefully word things accordingly and you gobble it up as fact. > [@](#): > > After the neolithic period, civilizations emerged, there was more travel back and forth, invasions, wars, mass movements of populations, and groups started to mix. And then the Age of Exploration opened in the 15th Century and the process accelerated. Only a very few human regional populations of the world have anything like the “pure” genetic makeup they may have had in the distant past. Read carefully: While complete isolation makes the distinction of one branch between another most crisp and clear, admixture between different branches, which causes genetic drift, is also a natural part of genetic branching. So if branch ‘1’ has a small amount of admixture from branch ‘2’, branch ‘1’ still exists as a unique branch. If all members of branch ‘1’ mate with members from branch ‘2’ in a generation or two, their gene pools would completely combine and the unique aggregate Genetic traits of branch ‘1’ would no longer exist. They would become a new branch (branch ‘3’). 1+2=3 > [@](#): > > Humanity almost certainly will not start “branching” again unless and until we establish colonies in other solar systems, colonies isolated from Earth by the impossibility of faster-than-light travel; and it’s far too soon to even worry about that. You are promoting extreme multi-racialism per item #2: 1. Expressing the notion that nobody should even think about human genetic branching and population diversity, and that we should all exclude those thoughts from our minds. This then leads to direct verbal hatred expressed towards people who do enjoy, accept and understand human genetic branching. > [@](#): > > And the scientific fact is that the “genetic differences that exist” are purely physical and, for the most part, cosmetic. There is no hard scientific evidence of any important **psychological** differences between different gene-pools. The “scientific fact” has only just begun to be explored… You are easily misled. Genetic studies are still rudimentary studies - today they are changing with the tides. Why does it require these “important psychological differences” in order for human branching to be OK with you? > [@](#): > > Lots of theorists have posited such differences and none of those theories have held up under scrutiny. The _Bell Curve_ hypothesis, for instance, has been pretty thoroughly discredited. We live in a world where intellectual honesty is not common. People are driven by political and ideolistic motivations. Good Science: Any science that regards the results of the science to be the positive, enriching goal. The science is competently performed. No political or ideological goals influence the science. Bad Science: Any science that is pursued towards achieving a political or an ideological goal. Incompetently performed science is also bad science. Regarding the IQ game, it’s not rational to think that all the different human branches will have the exact same average intelligence, of the whatever kind (meaning we could break intelligence down into various categories). Now, if someone takes a position like yourselve and simply says that “we no longer branch” and really we havn’t branched that much it allows you to not have to think about it further - so it’s the easy pathway. I prefer the pathway of reality. And children are taught both of those sets of facts, historical and scientific. What would you teach them, that they are not being taught already? Children are not taught about human genetic branching… It is pushed as far under the carpet as they can push it. They breeze over it as simply as they can doing their best to suggest that it’s “an irrelevant type of branching” that has occured. It is intellectual dishonesty. I do believe that genetic scientists today, that get any air time, are forced to walk a particular line. They cannot disclose any thoughts or findings they have that are contrary to the anti-branching agenda - you know as well as I do that any scientists that attempts to publish anything that would suggest some sort of genetic difference in intelligence would be fired from their job immediately… that is called a witch hunt. We don’t live in sane times. All I’m interested in teaching kids is the truth about human genetics, genetic distance, historical branching and how they have two fundamental reproductive decisions: 1. To select someone in or very near our branch, thus continuing the branch’s unique Genetic traits. 2. To select outside our nearest branches, thus discontinuing our unique Genetic traits in favor of a different genetic combination. ---
**Author:** ![hellothere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9de053/32.png) [@hellothere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellothere)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/75 "2004-06-16T01:38:12Z")
> [@pizzabrat](#): > > I noticed your essay didn’t touch at all on con-jovial racism, and following, con-jovial multiracialism. Assuming retroracialprobagation to be a constant in the race-raque-nucleic continum, and thus making deflected racialoid properties by definition completely relative; I find that to be a glaring omission. Even more complicating to your theory is the recently discovered Rashton’s Law of cyracialtronic multi-plane rendering, which makes multi-racialism _AND_ absolute racism protonically impossible to recreate in the ultra-cognative plane (though the word is still out on the trans-cognative plane). Basically, you’re going to have to work on your theory a bit more. I’m sure you had an orgasm while writing that… ---
**Author:** ![hellothere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9de053/32.png) [@hellothere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellothere)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/76 "2004-06-16T01:39:28Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > The only thing I was taught, and not at any government institution, was that we are all equal, and build on that. If you want to go around telling kids that they are free to marry within their “branch,” trhen you may, I have nothing against that. Then again, they know that anyway, and no one is telling them otherwise. We are “all one and equal” in the following ways: 1. We are all human life upon planet earth, and we are all a part of the branching human race. 2. Legally, in the eyes of any government or law, we all must be treated equally and without bias or prejudice based upon our genetics (race, ethnicity…) or philosophies. 3. Our souls and spirits are equal (we don’t know otherwise). ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/77 "2004-06-16T01:41:53Z")
OK, now we’re beginning to repeat the “genetic freedom” thread. 1. if you are going to use fancy scientific words like “genetics,” please demonstrate the distinct genetic branches that exist, in scientific terms, and their differing traits, in any measurable extent. 2. … OK, that’s all. ---
**Author:** ![hellothere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9de053/32.png) [@hellothere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellothere)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/78 "2004-06-16T01:42:46Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Science == peer reviewed and approved, or at least discussed. > > Psuedoscience == some guy with a blog Honestly, talking with people on this thread is like highschool… The blog, blogs things that are “peer reviewed and approved” and simply provedes them for people to check out for themselves. If there is anybody reading this thread who has some actual intellectual honesty and intelligence, they will easily see through the agenda driven statements that many on here enjoy making. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/79 "2004-06-16T01:45:32Z")
> [@hellothere](#): > > Honestly, talking with people on this thread is like highschool… Getting a little snarky, aren’t we? > [@](#): > > The blog, blogs things that are “peer reviewed and approved” and simply provedes them for people to check out for themselves. You _do_ know what the term “peer reviewed” means, right? ---
**Author:** ![hellothere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/9de053/32.png) [@hellothere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hellothere)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2004, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395/80 "2004-06-16T01:46:50Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > No, of course not. It happens all the time. So what exactly is the issue for debate? You don’t exactly seem to arguing for the value of artificially preserving the “genetic distances” between racial groups – or are you? I won’t stop till the ignorance, which you just wrote, is gone. You suggest that for unique human branches to continue to exist we would have to “artificially preserve” existing genetic branches. That’s not a sane statement. It’s completely insane. You have, with that statement, stabbed a knife into love that exists between people of the same or very near branch - you classify that as “artificial.” Your ignorace is so deep, that you cannot see how hateful that statement you just made is. We have to teach kids that they have two reproductive choices: 1. To select someone in or very near our branch, thus continuing the branch’s unique Genetic traits. 2. To select outside our nearest branches, thus discontinuing our unique Genetic traits in favor of a different genetic combination. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-branching/250395.md?page=5)