# human extinction by a virus **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 12, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293 "2014-09-12T15:40:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![blood63](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@blood63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blood63)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/1 "2014-09-12T15:40:28Z")
Is it possible for a mad scientist to create a virus so virile that it will kill all humans? What are the limitations of biological warfare in this respect? This has been probably been asked before so please direct me to the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/2 "2014-09-12T15:46:43Z")
Have you ever played the flash game pandemic or its successor pandemic 2? If you make it too lethal too quickly, a few people will die painfully before quarantine measures are put in place and the virus will die out once it’s killed its hosts. If you make it innocuous enough to sneak into all the countries, it’s probably not going to kill everyone. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/3 "2014-09-12T16:03:40Z")
I don’t think there is any record of the extinction of any natural species attributable to a virus, so it seems unlikely that H. sapiens, with all its self-serving medical knowledge, would fall victim to one. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/4 "2014-09-12T16:27:26Z")
I would put it in the realm of “not technically impossible, but exceedingly unlikely”. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/5 "2014-09-12T16:29:44Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > I don’t think there is any record of the extinction of any natural species attributable to a virus, so it seems unlikely that H. sapiens, with all its self-serving medical knowledge, would fall victim to one. [It has been suggested that the pattern of extinction in some marine microorganisms is due to viral infections.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8155848) > [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > If you make it too lethal too quickly, a few people will die painfully before quarantine measures are put in place and the virus will die out once it’s killed its hosts. If you make it innocuous enough to sneak into all the countries, it’s probably not going to kill everyone. One strategy would be to create a virus that can infect other animals but which is not lethal to them. Ebola remains in the environment between human outbreaks because it infects other mammals without killing them. However, it would be tough to create a virus that would infect animals that all humans would be in contact with. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/6 "2014-09-12T16:32:01Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Have you ever played the flash game pandemic or its successor pandemic 2? If you make it too lethal too quickly, a few people will die painfully before quarantine measures are put in place and the virus will die out once it’s killed its hosts. If you make it innocuous enough to sneak into all the countries, it’s probably not going to kill everyone. That is an awesome game really. You really have to engineer that virus and it’s spread, including places that are hard to spread to. Then you have to engineer mutations. And the zombies needed to win. Fun game. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/7 "2014-09-12T16:32:10Z")
There’s also the matter that there are 7 billion of us, and even with a relatively recent population bottleneck, that means a fair bit of genetic diversity. It’s likely that some proportion of humanity would happen to be resistant to the virus, just by the luck of the genes. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/8 "2014-09-12T16:37:17Z")
So the OP will have to fall back on the old tried and true “Hold the world ransom for $1 million” using a “laser.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/9 "2014-09-12T16:39:42Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > I don’t think there is any record of the extinction of any natural species attributable to a virus, so it seems unlikely that H. sapiens, with all its self-serving medical knowledge, would fall victim to one. There has also never been a natural species which can carry an infectious agent to the other side of the world in 24 hours. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/10 "2014-09-12T17:10:40Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Have you ever played the flash game pandemic or its successor pandemic 2? If you make it too lethal too quickly, a few people will die painfully before quarantine measures are put in place and the virus will die out once it’s killed its hosts. If you make it innocuous enough to sneak into all the countries, it’s probably not going to kill everyone. I don’t think that the game pandemic is a particularly illustrative model for considering whether a real disease could do what the OP suggests. It’s a very simple little game with no real underpinnings in biology. If the incubation period is long enough, then the disease can spread far and wide before it starts killing people. Think of HIV/AIDS. People often have and spread it for years before they start to get sick. Of course, it’s rather hard to get HIV. It’s not particularly communicable, so it takes a lot of time to move through populations, and we developed treatments in the long lead time from when people started dying in large enough numbers for the medical establishment to take notice it in the 80s. Imagine that HIV was transmitted through a cough or sharing food or contaminated water. It could easily travel around the world and If it’s very hardy in the environment, then the speed at which it kills people might matter a lot less. Here, think of the various bacteria that form spores. Anthrax can survive in spore form for centuries. Imagine that it was not safe to go into an area where people had been sick for decades after without taking extreme precautions. This is much worse than an animal reservoir, because at least you can try to contain or kill animal populations, and you can put people in quarantine when they have animal contact. Now, is the combination of all these traits biologically possible? I don’t know. I’m not sure if we have the requisite knowledge about biology to figure out. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/11 "2014-09-12T19:04:52Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There’s also the matter that there are 7 billion of us, and even with a relatively recent population bottleneck, that means a fair bit of genetic diversity. Actually IIRC humans are less genetically diverse than most species. Our wide distribution and understanding of the concept of quarantine is more likely to help than our substandard genetic diversity; it would be extremely hard for some disease to reach _everyone everywhere,_ right down to the last isolated tribe in some jungle somewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/12 "2014-09-12T19:39:59Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > I don’t think there is any record of the extinction of any natural species attributable to a virus, so it seems unlikely that H. sapiens, with all its self-serving medical knowledge, would fall victim to one. Koalas are listed as threatened in much of their habitat because of a number of factors, one being a retrovirus. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/13 "2014-09-12T22:29:46Z")
> [@blood63](#): > > Is it possible for a mad scientist to create a virus so virile that it will kill all humans? > What are the limitations of biological warfare in this respect? > > This has been probably been asked before so please direct me to the thread. Cue best ever Doctor Who moment [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/dkelV2WUNdw/hqdefault.jpg "The Doctor and Davros - Genesis of the Daleks") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkelV2WUNdw) ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/14 "2014-09-12T23:13:42Z")
Madagascar will always be safe. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2014, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/15 "2014-09-12T23:26:23Z")
Step 1: Acquire small pox from US or Russia via nefarious means. Step 2: Cultivate a strain that is resistant to all current vaccines. Step 3: Weaponize the germs, develop a vector for distribution (natural or man-made). Step 4: Get on the phone with the World Council and demand “One MILLION dollars! Mbwa-ha-ha-ha!”. ---
**Author:** ![MrQwertyasd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@MrQwertyasd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrQwertyasd)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2014, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/16 "2014-09-13T01:36:39Z")
Didn’t you watch the Doctor Who bit then ? ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2014, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/17 "2014-09-13T03:34:59Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Step 2: Cultivate a strain that is resistant to all current vaccines. For all practical purposes, you can eliminate this step. There is no stockpile of smallpox vaccine. (Jenny McCarthy has nothing to do wit this.) ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/18 "2014-09-15T00:02:33Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > For all practical purposes, you can eliminate this step. There is no stockpile of smallpox vaccine. > > (Jenny McCarthy has nothing to do wit this.) nm ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/19 "2014-09-15T00:52:40Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > So the OP will have to fall back on the old tried and true “Hold the world ransom for $1 million” using a “laser.” Zip it! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293/20 "2014-09-15T01:01:43Z")
In a sense, there’s still a huge stockpile of smallpox vaccine, stored in the T cells of close to a billion people. Anyone who’s had the vaccine would survive, even if the rest of us are screwed. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-extinction-by-a-virus/698293.md?page=2)