# Human rights for apes **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 17, 2006, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795 "2006-07-17T01:04:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![TitoGrey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TitoGrey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TitoGrey)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2006, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/1 "2006-07-17T01:04:08Z")
Hello guys, Here is something interesting and controversial. Spanish government wants to grant human rights to monkeys. Monkeys would not anymore be anyone’s property and would be placed under legal guardianship similar to that in cases of infants, handicapped and elderly people. The same political coalition supports the right to abortion and medical euthanasia, stating that great apes have more self-awareness than infants and elderly people. In consequence, monkeys would have more rights than unborn children. It is serious legislative proposal. There is an article about it, which also explains ideological background behind the proposal: > **[europeancourier.org](https://europeancourier.org)** > > europeancourier.org Here are other interesting articles about this issue, if you are interested: [http://monkeydaynews.blogspot.com/2006/04/spain-may-give-apes-human-rights.html](http://monkeydaynews.blogspot.com/2006/04/spain-may-give-apes-human-rights.html) Telegraph: [http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/06/10/wapes10.xml](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/06/10/wapes10.xml) BBC: > **[BBC NEWS | Europe | Spanish MPs push for apes' rights](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5058986.stm)** > > Spanish Socialist MPs hope to persuade parliament to back a project seeking human-like rights for apes. That’s something unusual. Europe always has had bright ideas about how to change the world. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2006, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/2 "2006-07-17T01:18:21Z")
Methinks the Spanish mushroom crop came in early. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2006, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/3 "2006-07-17T01:34:53Z")
> [@TitoGrey](#): > > Spanish government wants to grant human rights to monkeys. No; they want to grant some rights to (non-human) _apes_. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2006, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/4 "2006-07-17T02:09:18Z")
> [@](#): > > Campaigners say the intelligence and self-awareness shown by apes mean they deserve rights to life, freedom and protection from torture. Well by that definition, lots of species will need protection from torture. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 17, 2006, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/5 "2006-07-17T02:41:30Z")
Have they thought this through? Are they prepared for the millions of monkey refugees who will show up in Spain fleeing oppression in their homelands? ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/6 "2006-07-18T01:31:35Z")
There was some parody where someone said “We’re proud to announce that we’ve extended full civil rights to negros, chimpanzees and dogs. Aren’t we enlightened!” Cite anyone? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/7 "2006-07-18T01:39:24Z")
How do you even know when an ape wants an abortion? They don’t **all** know sign language! ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/8 "2006-07-18T02:35:52Z")
> [@](#): > > In consequence, monkeys would have more rights than unborn children. Makes sense. Non-human apes are more morally aware and caring about their fates than unborn children. Infants are probably the best comparison to the moral status of a non-human ape. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/9 "2006-07-18T02:38:33Z")
I suppose, then, that W’s rights in Spain will hereafter be uncontested. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/10 "2006-07-18T02:43:02Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I suppose, then, that W’s rights in Spain will hereafter be uncontested. Especially his right to euthanasia! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Baker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@Baker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baker)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/11 "2006-07-18T02:45:39Z")
This has me remembering the short story by Heinlein “Jerry Was a Man.” ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/12 "2006-07-18T02:51:01Z")
I for one welcome our new ape overlords. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/13 "2006-07-18T03:19:04Z")
> [@Baker](#): > > This has me remembering the short story by Heinlein “Jerry Was a Man.” At least Jerry could talk. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/14 "2006-07-18T03:31:05Z")
> [@](#): > > How do you even know when an ape wants an abortion? They don’t all know sign language! Not to mention the problem of gay monkey rights. How will we know the subtle difference between apes who like bananas and apes who like “bananas”? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/15 "2006-07-18T03:34:12Z")
Of course, if this idea spreads here, apes can count on the NRA to protect their right to bear arms! 🙂 “Oook shreeeek ooka oooka!” (translated from the Pongid: “Do ya feel lucky, punk?!”) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/16 "2006-07-18T03:36:13Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Not to mention the problem of gay monkey rights. How will we know the subtle difference between apes who like bananas and apes who like “bananas”? At least with [bonobos,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonobo) you don’t have to guess! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Coin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@Coin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coin)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/17 "2006-07-18T06:38:52Z")
IANAME (monkey expert) but the main problem I see with this is that apes don`t always conform to human behavioral norms. If we give them legal rights similar to humans, does this mean they can be incarcerated when they act violently towards humans or apes? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/18 "2006-07-18T19:49:29Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > No; they want to grant some rights to (non-human) _apes_. I suspect the OP may not be a native speaker of English. In some other European languages, the terms “ape” and “monkey” are the same, or similar. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/19 "2006-07-18T20:29:19Z")
> [@Coin](#): > > IANAME (monkey expert) but the main problem I see with this is that apes don`t always conform to human behavioral norms. If we give them legal rights similar to humans, does this mean they can be incarcerated when they act violently towards humans or apes? From the OP: > [@](#): > > Monkeys would not anymore be anyone’s property and would be placed under legal guardianship similar to that in cases of infants, handicapped and elderly people. I see no reason why not; indeed, I strongly doubt anyon’es talking about reasing chimpanzees in Toledo. I think this is an idea (limited rights for primates, not releasing chimps in Toledo) long overdue. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Salt\_Seller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@Salt\_Seller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Salt_Seller)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2006, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795/20 "2006-07-18T21:08:21Z")
_Give Apes the Vote! You Won’t Regret It!_ [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/human-rights-for-apes/364795.md?page=2)