# Humans are Becoming Genetically Less Intelligent
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-are-becoming-genetically-less-intelligent/320863
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [September 9, 2005, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-are-becoming-genetically-less-intelligent/320863 "2005-09-09T19:15:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 14
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-are-becoming-genetically-less-intelligent/320863/41 "2005-09-11T01:28:14Z")
> [@Asian-American](#):
>
> The American Psychological Association just published research showing that IQ has a strong genetic component, and that ethnic groups differ on average in innate intelligence, here is the research: [Medical News | Medical Articles](http://www.news-medical.net/?id=9530)
> [@](#):
>
> “Neither the existence nor the size of race differences in IQ are a matter of dispute, only their cause,” write the authors. The Black-White difference has been found consistently from the time of the massive **World War I Army testing** of 90 years ago to a massive study of over 6 million corporate, military, and higher-education test-takers in 2001.
That’s strange:
> [@](#):
>
> The social controversy involving Yerkes work started after the end of the war. The army testing program provided a massive amount of data which Yerkes and his colleague began to analyze. Fancher (1985) pointed out three controversial finding which Yerkes revealed. First, Yerkes asserted that the average army recruit had low native intelligence. In his 800 page book entitled Psychological Examining in the United States Army published in 1921, he calculated the average recruits mental age to be around 13. Second, A Study of American Intelligence was published in 1923 by Yerkes’ colleague Carl Brigham. He reported that immigrants from northern Europe scored lower than native-born American whites, and also that immigrants from southern and eastern Europe scored much lower than those from northern Europe. Brigham failed to consider that the amount of time an immigrant had been in the country influenced his test score and northern Europeans, on the average, had been in the country much longer than the other two groups.Third, Yerkes and Brigham noted that blacks scored lower than whites and **blacks from northern states often scored higher than whites from southern states.**
So then, Southern whites are genetically inferior to both Northern blacks and whites or maybe environment is the key?
[history of iq](http://www.aceviper.net/aceviper_net/ace_intelligence/aceviper_detailed_history_of_the_iq_test/aceviper_long_detailed_history_of_the_iq_test.html)
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### Author:  [@Asian-American](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asian-American)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-are-becoming-genetically-less-intelligent/320863/42 "2005-09-11T01:33:00Z")
> [@John Mace](#):
>
> From your cite, you might want to note:
>
> Get it?
I agree with you: White countries should have open borders and multiculturalism. But I don’t support the same for the far East, which have zero-immigration policy and works for them very nicely: keeps their culture united with internal harmony: no charges of racism, oppression, and so forth. The East is very collectivist: work for the national good: the West is individualistic: citizens work for the good of only themselves, their immediate family, and close friends: damn the nation they live in.
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### Author:  [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-are-becoming-genetically-less-intelligent/320863/43 "2005-09-11T01:33:05Z")
> [@Asian-American](#):
>
> The American Psychological Association just published research showing that IQ has a strong genetic component, and that ethnic groups differ on average in innate intelligence, here is the research: [http://www.news-medical.net/?id=9530](http://www.news-medical.net/?id=9530)
1. Just because this appears in an APA publication does not mean the scientific community of psychologists endorses the conclusions by consensus or majority. AFAIK, most psychologists do not accept these conclusions.
2. The authors of the article, Arthur Jensen ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur\_Jensen](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Jensen)) and J. Philippe Rushton ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe\_Rushton](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_Rushton)), have been beating this racial-differences-in-IQ drum for decades. (Ever since 1969, when Jensen argued in print that Head Start was a fundamentally pointless program because it set out to correct the innate and hereditary disadvantages of black inner-city schoolchildren.) It has won them grants and perks from racist organizations such as the Pioneer Fund ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer\_fund](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pioneer_fund)), but not credibility in the eyes of their peers.
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2005, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-are-becoming-genetically-less-intelligent/320863/44 "2005-09-11T01:37:10Z")
> [@Asian-American](#):
>
> This research was just publihed in the New York Times, showing that thanks to eugenic practices, Ashkenazi Jews have the highest innate IQ average in the world: [http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story\_id=4032638](http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=4032638)
It was not “just” published. It was published last June (Don’t look at the date in the upper left corner, which is always today’s date, but on the date just beneath the title of the article) and was discussed for a bit on the board in the thread [Are Jews Really Smarter?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=320766). You will also note that, to the extent that anyone made a claim, (still unsubstantiated) that there was both a genetic and intelligence difference, that difference was relegated to a very small endogamous group and nothing that could be considered a “race.”
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2005, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-are-becoming-genetically-less-intelligent/320863/45 "2005-09-11T01:43:08Z")
> [@](#):
>
> But I don’t support the same for the far East, which have zero-immigration policy and works for them very nicely: keeps their culture united with internal harmony: no charges of racism, oppression, and so forth.
I dare you to go to Japan and make that statement to a group of Okinawans or Ainu, or to Thailand, Burma/Myanmar, Vietnam, or Southeast China and make that claim to a group of Hmong.
I am not going to dictate immigration practices to another country, but your rationalization to attempt to justify their practices is hollow.
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### Author:  [@Asian-American](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asian-American)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2005, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-are-becoming-genetically-less-intelligent/320863/46 "2005-09-11T01:50:44Z")
But what is good for the East is not good for the West: I hope Europe allows Turkey into the European Union, and I hope that the Mexican-American border is abolished, and I hope we decide to allow complete open borders with Africa. Multiculturalism is good for the West, but not for the East.
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2005, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-are-becoming-genetically-less-intelligent/320863/47 "2005-09-11T01:52:52Z")
The author of the above book Professor John Glad, a Jewish intellectual **whose training and expertise is in the area of Russian literature** in support of eugenics.
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2005, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-are-becoming-genetically-less-intelligent/320863/48 "2005-09-11T01:55:01Z")
Sorry, **Asian-American** , I was attempting to post a reply to your quotation of Dr. Glad and I must have accidentally hit “edit” instead of “reply”. I was not trying to destroy your post. Please repost it.
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### Author:  [@Asian-American](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asian-American)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-are-becoming-genetically-less-intelligent/320863/49 "2005-09-11T01:56:58Z")
> [@tomndebb](#):
>
> Sorry, **Asian-American** , I was attempting to post a reply to your quotation of Dr. Glad and I must have accidentally hit “edit” instead of “reply”. I was not trying to destroy your post. Please repost it.
No problem, I’ll repost it.
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### Author:  [@Asian-American](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asian-American)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2005, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-are-becoming-genetically-less-intelligent/320863/50 "2005-09-11T02:02:00Z")
Quote from [http://www.whatwemaybe.org/](http://www.whatwemaybe.org/)
> [@](#):
>
> Evolutionary selection has been radically relaxed in the human species as a result of the development of civilization, science in general, and medicine in particular. While these advances have hugely benefited current populations, they have to a significant degree released the species from the biological process which created it and maintains its viability. Formerly, natural selection took place largely as a result of differential mortality, but now that most people survive well beyond their child bearing years, selection is determined largely by differential fertility. Aside from genetic illnesses, this new selection is also characterized by a negative correlation between fertility and intelligence–the core of eugenic concern for over a century.
The author of the above book is Professor John Glad, a Jewish intellectual in support of eugenics.
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2005, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-are-becoming-genetically-less-intelligent/320863/51 "2005-09-11T02:02:48Z")
From [http://www.whatwemaybe.org/](http://www.whatwemaybe.org/)
> [@](#):
>
> Evolutionary selection has been radically relaxed in the human species as a result of the development of civilization, science in general, and medicine in particular. While these advances have hugely benefited current populations, they have to a significant degree released the species from the biological process which created it and maintains its viability. Formerly, natural selection took place largely as a result of differential mortality, but now that most people survive well beyond their child bearing years, selection is determined largely by differential fertility. Aside from genetic illnesses, this new selection is also characterized by a negative correlation between fertility and intelligence–the core of eugenic concern for over a century.
The author of the above book Professor John Glad, a Jewish intellectual in support of eugenics.
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### Author:  [@Purd\_Werfect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Purd_Werfect)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-are-becoming-genetically-less-intelligent/320863/52 "2005-09-11T04:13:58Z")
Aside from the veracity or lack of same in the eugenics arguement put forth in the OP, the article being referenced is said to be originally from [The Occidental Quarterly](http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/) (not to be confused with the fine liberal arts college in Southern California). A quick read through the statement of principles on their front page reveals an agenda which pretty much boils down to “reclaim the US as a homeland for white seperatists, and make the more swarthy folks stay out.” As articulate as they may be, it’s difficult to think that they would look objectively at facts, rather than seek only those facts or supposed facts which bolster their agenda.
They aren’t the only group which acts this way, but that sad fact doesn’t make their viewpoint any more desirable or palatable.
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### Author:  [@Darwins\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darwins_Finch)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2005, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-are-becoming-genetically-less-intelligent/320863/53 "2005-09-11T05:14:55Z")
> [@Asian-American](#):
>
> The American Psychological Association just published research showing that IQ has a strong genetic component
That still doesn’t get around my earlier statement: what matters are whether the _variations_ are heritable, not whether the raw trait is heritable. That humans are more intelligent than chimps is a given – that’s genetics all the way. That a 5-point difference (or any other value you care to pick) in IQ can be passed on to one’s offspring is definitely _not_ a given. Since selection (whether natural or artificial in the form of some eugenics program) depends on variations, not averages, this is not a trivial point.
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### Author:  [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2005, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-are-becoming-genetically-less-intelligent/320863/54 "2005-09-11T06:19:21Z")
> [@Asian-American](#):
>
> I agree with you: White countries should have open borders and multiculturalism. But I don’t support the same for the far East, which have zero-immigration policy and works for them very nicely: keeps their culture united with internal harmony: no charges of racism, oppression, and so forth. The East is very collectivist: work for the national good: the West is individualistic: citizens work for the good of only themselves, their immediate family, and close friends: damn the nation they live in.
Yes, it’s true that cultures differ, and in a very general way Western cultures glorify the individual while Eastern cultures admire group cohesion. But so what? When all is said and done, we (all humans) are so very, very much more similar than we are different.
Don’t get too hung up on IQ. IQ is just our best estimate of how to measure one aspect of intelligence. But it’s not very good. We really don’t know what intelligence is, as it has so many facets beyond simple problem solving. In fact, a good case can be made that “social intelligence” (ie, the ability to understand group dynamics and interactions) is at least as important, if not more so, than strict problem solving. Humans are social creatures, not isolated problem solving units. We accomplish things in groups, and if you can’t accomplish something in a group setting, you can be the most brilliant person in the world and it won’t matter one bit.
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