# Humans as Carnivores ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 29, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349 "2012-04-29T19:24:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![SnakeBabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SnakeBabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeBabe)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/21 "2012-04-30T01:05:59Z")
This B12 discussion has moved a bit off the topic, sorry. So, getting back on track and to respond to the topic Having read this [article](http://www.powered-by-produce.com/2010/06/09/carnivore-omnivore-or-herbivore/) I feel fairly convinced we are herbivores. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/22 "2012-04-30T01:25:26Z")
> [@kurtisokc](#): > > In Canada, “eskimo” is considered at least somewhat degrogatory: The preferred term is “inuit.” In Alaska, the term “eskimo” is considered more acceptable, in part because there it encompasses some groups which aren’t technically “inuit.” I know, I just couldn’t resist the alliteration. I was tempted, I fell. Mea culpa. If iceberg lettuce counts as a vegetable, I think baked alaska should count too. ---
**Author:** ![al27052](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/41988e/32.png) [@al27052](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/al27052)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/23 "2012-04-30T03:04:18Z")
There are vegan villages in China that have been Buddhist and vegan for centuries. Plenty of Eskimo/Inuit groups eat (and have eaten for millenia) basically nothing but fish, meat, and other flesh foods. The real issues with veganism are B-12 and certain fatty acids. B-12 can be gotten from brewer’s yeast. The fatty acids are a little harder to come by, although, after a couple of millenia of eating very, VERY little meat, the Chinese, in the strict Buddhist villages, appear to have been able to convert to total veganism. Vegetarianism that uses milk/dairy and/or eggs is not a problem. There are plenty of fatty acids in those foods. Veganism is where it starts to get dicey. I personally know a number of vegans who appear to have neurological problems after many years of strict veganism. Some merely experience the tingling/numbness in fingers/toes that is caused by B-12 deficiency. Others seem to have panic and anxiety problems that could either be B-12 deficiency or fatty acid deficiency. So the smart money, as usual, is on the middle path. Extremes, as we know from life experience, are rarely safe. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/24 "2012-04-30T03:04:40Z")
> [@kurtisokc](#): > > In Canada, “eskimo” is considered at least somewhat degrogatory: Yes, but wrongly so, based on an urban myth. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeBabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SnakeBabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeBabe)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/25 "2012-04-30T04:38:56Z")
> [@al27052](#): > > … > I personally know a number of vegans who appear to have neurological problems after many years of strict veganism. Some merely experience the tingling/numbness in fingers/toes that is caused by B-12 deficiency. Others seem to have panic and anxiety problems that could either be B-12 deficiency or fatty acid deficiency… interesting. I belong to several vegan groups with thousands and thousands of members that have no dietary health issues. My doctor (a carnist) has told my hubby and I that due to our vegan diet our chances of heart disease, diabetes, obesity, high-blood pressure, gout, stroke and cancer (and more) are greatly lower than one who consumes dead animals. So, if your correct, rather than take part in animal cruelty and add to the torment and pain inflicted on innocent animals ill just stay off the middle road and take a b12 vitamin and eat veggies. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/26 "2012-04-30T06:36:04Z")
> [@SnakeBabe](#): > > This B12 discussion has moved a bit off the topic, sorry. So, getting back on track and to respond to the topic > Having read this [article](http://www.powered-by-produce.com/2010/06/09/carnivore-omnivore-or-herbivore/) > I feel fairly convinced we are herbivores. 🙂 There are many falsehoods and stupidities in that article, but a running theme is that the author ignores the role of the human brain and our tool-making ability when it comes to our diet. Humans don’t need sharp teeth because we can cut our meat. We don’t need heavy-duty stomach acid because we can cook food to sanitize it (and in some cases release nutrients). We don’t need big claws because we use weapons to take down our prey. We don’t need to sleep all the time because our efficient hunting techniques allow us to gather as much food as we need (most animals spend a very high percentage of their waking hours gathering food–herbivores grazing and carnivores hunting–humans are unusual in this respect). ---
**Author:** ![SnakeBabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SnakeBabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeBabe)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/27 "2012-04-30T16:30:22Z")
> [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > There are many falsehoods and stupidities in that article, … If there are many I must be missing them so I re-read it and I am still in agreement. Can you copy/paste a few of these stupidities for me? I’d like to contact the writer and let him know of his stupidity and correct my false belief. > [@Dr.Strangelove](#): > > …a running theme is that the author ignores the role of the human brain and our tool-making ability when it comes to our diet… I agree with you. I wish the writer had commented on that too. I have a viewpoint on it but would have appreciate to hear his (hers?) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/28 "2012-04-30T16:52:01Z")
OK, so if humans are naturally herbivores, why do we have cuspids? Why is our digestive tract so short? Why does meat taste good to most of us? Those are all traits that would be hard to explain in a herbivore. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeBabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SnakeBabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeBabe)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/29 "2012-04-30T17:07:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, so if humans are naturally herbivores, why do we have cuspids?.. Herbivorous animals have these small teeth. And really, try using the small little ones you have to rip thru the skin of a cow and see how far you get 🙂 > [@Chronos](#): > > …Why does meat taste good to most of us? … Try eating it like a true carnivore. Do not cook it, no seasoning or picking the parts of the animal you want to eat. A true carnivore eats the eyes, hair, intestines, anus- Everything. Try eating road kill fresh off the pavement. A true carnivore does and can digest it without harm. > [@Chronos](#): > > … Those are all traits that would be hard to explain in a herbivore. I dont get this one 😕 ---
**Author:** ![SnakeBabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SnakeBabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeBabe)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/30 "2012-04-30T17:19:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > …Why is our digestive tract so short? … this may help you about the digestive tract [this short clip opens with talk of that](http://youtu.be/mWgnhFp70ns) ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/31 "2012-04-30T18:27:25Z")
Humans show the traits of their heritage. Humans evolved from great apes, from lesser apes, from monkeys. Certainly there are ancestors of humans that were primarily or almost entirely herbivores, like gorillas (gorillas are herbivores, not gorillas are our direct ancestors). But the thing is, the ancestors of humans _diverged_ from those populations. One trait in which we diverged is making use of denser energy sources, i.e. meat. We made tools to help us, including stabby tools and clubbing tools and cutting tools and cooking tools, especially _fire_. To say that humans are “naturally herbivores” is to dismiss anthropology entirely. Humans have been eating meat since before we were humans. Not exclusively meat, but meat certainly contributing a significant portion of our diet. > [@SnakeBabe](#): > > Try eating it like a true carnivore. Do not cook it, no seasoning or picking the parts of the animal you want to eat. A true carnivore eats the eyes, hair, intestines, anus- Everything. Try eating road kill fresh off the pavement. A true carnivore does and can digest it without harm. No one claims that humans are “true carnivores”. Only that we will and can eat meat. ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/32 "2012-04-30T18:43:58Z")
If our ancestors didn’t start eating meat, [we might not be here right now](http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/99legacy/6-14-1999a.html) (as in, conversing on computers, as opposed to swinging through trees or whatever): > [@](#): > > BERKELEY-- Human ancestors who roamed the dry and open savannas of Africa about 2 million years ago routinely began to include meat in their diets to compensate for a serious decline in the quality of plant foods, according to a physical anthropologist at the University of California, Berkeley. > > It was this new meat diet, full of densely-packed nutrients, that provided the catalyst for human evolution, particularly the growth of the brain, said Katharine Milton, an authority on primate diet. > > Without meat, said Milton, it’s unlikely that proto humans could have secured enough energy and nutrition from the plants available in their African environment at that time to evolve into the active, sociable, intelligent creatures they became. Receding forests would have deprived them of the more nutritious leaves and fruits that forest-dwelling primates survive on, said Milton. And of course, as \*\*Irishman \*\*points out, just because some of our relatives are herbivores doesn’t mean that humans are the same; we evolved on a meat-based diet (of course, not exclusively). Or rather, we evolved because we started eating meat (this goes both ways) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/33 "2012-04-30T20:22:42Z")
> [@SnakeBabe](#): > > If there are many I must be missing them so I re-read it and I am still in agreement. Can you copy/paste a few of these stupidities for me? I’d like to contact the writer and let him know of his stupidity and correct my false belief. An outright falsehood was the claim that humans have lost the taste for amino acids. On the contrary–umami is well-known as the “fifth taste” and represents the taste of the amino acid L-glutamate. Some vegetables contain glutamate but the taste is primarily associated with meat and other animal products. A stupidity is the author’s insistence that we can somehow use the appeal of foods to determine what is “natural”, and yet dismiss that same evidence when it comes to any foods the author doesn’t approve of–whether a McDonalds burger or otherwise. Of course there’s another falsehood here, which is the implication that humans _don’t_ find raw meat appealing. Maybe the author doesn’t, and I won’t claim that I find a dismembered bird appealing in the way my cat does. But the author needs this to be universally true, and it patently isn’t, given the appeal or sushi/sashimi, steak tartare, oysters, etc. > [@SnakeBabe](#): > > I agree with you. I wish the writer had commented on that too. I have a viewpoint on it but would have appreciate to hear his (hers?) The short answer is that we are a tool-using, cooking species in the way that birds are a flying species. Cooking was one of the very first things we did as humans–it predates Homo sapiens, at any rate. Excluding it as unnatural is as ridiculous as asking how a bird is supposed to get by without wings. Finally, I have to laugh at the author’s recipes at the end of the article, which contain at least three simulated animal products. If animal products are so unnatural and wrong, _why are you trying so hard to simulate them_? (I nevertheless applaud those vegetarians who acknowledge that animal foods are delicious, but for moral or health reasons eschew them, and so come up with innovative ways of simulating them. I personally would be happy to go vegetarian if the simulations were good enough.) ---
**Author:** ![Powers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/edb3f5/32.png) [@Powers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Powers)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/34 "2012-04-30T20:34:06Z")
My question is, why do vegetarians seem to be so invested in the idea that humans are not “supposed to” eat meat? No one cares if they’re vegetarians. We don’t care if they don’t want to eat meat. So why do they care whether or not it’s “natural” to do so? Powers &8^] ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/35 "2012-04-30T21:43:51Z")
Powers, I think it may be a result of the [naturalistic fallacy](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalistic_fallacy). It’s used to oppose the concept of vegetarianism, so rather than pointing out that such arguments are fallacious, attempts are made to construct a “tu quoque”. Personally, I can cede that an omnivorous diet comes naturally to humans and that our existence here (as forum users) is predicated on it, without feeling any great desire to consume meat. It’s been discussed on the debate forum [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=646560) for instance. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/36 "2012-05-01T00:07:50Z")
> [@Powers](#): > > My question is, why do vegetarians seem to be so invested in the idea that humans are not “supposed to” eat meat? No one cares if they’re vegetarians. We don’t care if they don’t want to eat meat. So why do they care whether or not it’s “natural” to do so? > Powers &8^] Yes you (the you of your “we”) do care. Vegetarians do catch a lot of crap for not eating meat, and not solely due to their attitude. Especially from meat eaters in a group. Usually the discorse starts with the meat eaters as soon as they learn someone is a vegetarian. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/37 "2012-05-01T01:25:59Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Yes you (the you of your “we”) do care. Vegetarians do catch a lot of crap for not eating meat, and not solely due to their attitude. Especially from meat eaters in a group. Usually the discorse starts with the meat eaters as soon as they learn someone is a vegetarian. You put an herbivore in a pack of carnivores and they naturally attack. More proof humans are carnivores. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/38 "2012-05-01T01:33:34Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > You put an herbivore in a pack of carnivores and they naturally attack. More proof humans are carnivores. > > 😉 Yes, but they never ate me. Dang! Well, one did. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![SnakeBabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SnakeBabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeBabe)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/39 "2012-05-01T02:25:15Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > … > No one claims that humans are “true carnivores”. Only that we will and can eat meat. I do not deny that humans can and will eat dead animal flesh. I was trying to discuss are humans naturally carnivores (as in the topic title) and the evidences I see says we are not. We may currently eat dead animals but I do not see humans naturally as carnivores from what I read. And when I think about it, i just dont see cave men doing it naturally either. I mean, if i was a hungry cave-girl, I could grab an apple off a tree or pick a berry from a bush. Easy. But given the opposing view I’d have to first create weapons to do what I naturally lack in claws and teeth, then I’d have to somehow use my cave-girl brain to guess that cooking will aid the process of digestion of foods I cant naturally digest and to make this new found bloddy mess taste good I’d have to add vegan spices to the rotting flesh because it doesn’t naturally taste very good on its own. It just dosent seem natural. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SnakeBabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SnakeBabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeBabe)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/40 "2012-05-01T02:29:50Z")
> [@Powers](#): > > My question is, why do vegetarians seem to be so invested in the idea that humans are not “supposed to” eat meat? \*\* No one cares\*\* if they’re vegetarians. We don’t care if they don’t want to eat meat. So why do they care whether or not it’s “natural” to do so? > Powers &8^] The animals care. Your choice subjects 10 billion land animals a year to life in hellish conditions that if we subjected a dog to we would go to jail. If you dont know [watch this video](http://meatvideo.com/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349.md?page=3)