# Humans as Carnivores ? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [April 29, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349 "2012-04-29T19:24:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/101 "2012-05-14T15:37:52Z")
It’s the paws. Ever tried to use a lighter with paws? It’s damn near impossible… -XT ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2012, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/102 "2012-05-14T20:13:21Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > The last I heard, _all_ carnivores prefer cooked food. Man is just better prepared to have it all the time. True for the dogs _and_ cats I’ve raised. ---
**Author:** ![SprungFromCages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@SprungFromCages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SprungFromCages)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/103 "2012-05-16T14:28:01Z")
High-caloric-density foods taste good to us because they provided a survival advantage to certain individuals back in the day, who then procreated at a higher rate than others. Natural selection, as it were. There must have been an evolutionary advantage for those pre-human predecessors who preferred the taste of cooked meat. Hence, anyone who believes in evolution should have no problem with humans eating cooked meat. ---
**Author:** ![mangeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@mangeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mangeorge)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/104 "2012-05-16T15:20:19Z")
> [@SprungFromCages](#): > > High-caloric-density foods taste good to us because they provided a survival advantage to certain individuals back in the day, who then procreated at a higher rate than others. Natural selection, as it were. > > There must have been an evolutionary advantage for those pre-human predecessors who preferred the taste of cooked meat. Hence, anyone who believes in evolution should have no problem with humans eating cooked meat. Or, killing your neighbor to take his mate. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/105 "2012-05-16T16:41:51Z")
If you’re not a [breatharian](http://www.angelfire.com/stars3/breathe_light/breatharianism.html), you have no moral superiority. ---
**Author:** ![SprungFromCages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f17d59/32.png) [@SprungFromCages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SprungFromCages)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/106 "2012-05-16T18:06:22Z")
> [@mangeorge](#): > > Or, killing your neighbor to take his mate. neighbor = grouper? hmmmm, doesn’t strike me as the same. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/107 "2012-05-24T21:21:09Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > Humans show the traits of their heritage. Humans evolved from great apes, from lesser apes, from monkeys. Certainly there are ancestors of humans that were primarily or almost entirely herbivores, like gorillas (gorillas are herbivores, not gorillas are our direct ancestors). Sorry to quote your fairly old post, but I just wanted to point out that it’s starting to look like [gorillas may in fact be omnivorous](http://www.janegoodall.org/blogs/gorillas-meat-eaters-too), much like chimps. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2012, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/108 "2012-05-24T21:25:31Z")
Hey, I wouldn’t be surprised. I only stated that because I’ve read that somewhere on the internet. 😉 (Okay, it’s “conventional wisdom” or “the state of knowledge of their habits” or whatever.) ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/109 "2012-05-25T16:41:17Z")
Let me ask you something If man is naturally a herbivore then why would we be able to grow fat on meat? Wouldn’t a herbivore grow mal-nourished and die if you made it get a large chunk or even a majority of it’s calories from meat? Many Carnivores can tolerate a little bit of plant matter and many Herbivores can consume a little bit of meat and get some benefit. But if you were to limit their diet to one or the other the animals will soon die. Humans on the other hand have been shown to be capable of eating a diet of exclusively either plants or animals and live for many years. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeBabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SnakeBabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeBabe)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/110 "2012-05-25T17:44:40Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Let me ask you something If man is naturally a herbivore then why would we be able to grow fat on meat? … I think you are giving the cruelty free side some hep with this one. 🙂 Getting fat is part of the problem with meat, obesity is much more common in those that eat animal products. Plus, diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, heart disease, cancers, and more are greatly increased in meat eaters over those on a vegan diet. To me that gives evidence that we shouldn’t eat it. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeBabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SnakeBabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeBabe)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/111 "2012-05-25T17:45:44Z")
> [@XT](#): > > It’s the paws. Ever tried to use a lighter with paws? It’s damn near impossible… > > -XT 😃 ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/112 "2012-05-25T17:58:43Z")
> [@SnakeBabe](#): > > I think you are giving the cruelty free side some hep with this one. 🙂 Getting fat is part of the problem with meat, obesity is much more common in those that eat animal products. Plus, diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, heart disease, cancers, and more are greatly increased in meat eaters over those on a vegan diet. To me that gives evidence that we shouldn’t eat it. Don’t get me wrong plenty of people get fat off of plants as well. In fact I would say plant matter is responsible for more overweightness than meat is. Carbs being the main cause of obesity. I am just saying that the ability to not die of mal-nutrition from a particular diet is a clear indication that the food is doing its job. Like for example If I fed you the average herbivores diet you would die very quickly because your body does not have the ability to digest it. Also you can’t say that those diseases have any basis on evolution since they in almost all cases happen after a person is past their reproductive years and anything that happens to an animal after it reproduces cannot be transmitted to the next generation. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/113 "2012-05-25T18:47:52Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Let me ask you something If man is naturally a herbivore then why would we be able to grow fat on meat? Wouldn’t a herbivore grow mal-nourished and die if you made it get a large chunk or even a majority of it’s calories from meat? Well, that’s a good question. First off, there are two types of herbivores: ruminants, and non-ruminants. Both have bacteria in their guts that help break down the cellulose and make it digestible, but they function in two different ways. Ruminants have the bacteria before the stomach. They break down the material by chewing a cud, rechewing the material after it is partially processed to help that breakdown. Then they swallow the broken down cellulose, they are also swallowing large amounts of bacteria, and they digest those bacteria. A part of the ruminant’s calories and nutrients come from the bacteria. So it seems they can digest animal matter. The just don’t seek it out. In non-ruminants, the microfauna are located in the intestinal tract below the stomach. They break down the cellulose and allow it to be digested, but are not as efficient, and because they are below the stomach, the bacteria are not digested. I am less clear on what would happen if you feed a non-ruminant animal matter, now much would be digested. Regardless, they also do not seek out animal matter. > [@drewder](#): > > Also you can’t say that those diseases have any basis on evolution since they in almost all cases happen after a person is past their reproductive years and anything that happens to an animal after it reproduces cannot be transmitted to the next generation. Well, the proclivities for those diseases may be genetic, and those proclivities would be passed along, not by any causative manner, just as passengers of the genetic heritage. The offspring wouldn’t get sick from their parents. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeBabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SnakeBabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeBabe)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2012, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/114 "2012-05-25T21:55:55Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > … Like for example if i fed you the average herbivores diet you would die very quickly because your body does not have the ability to digest it. … huh? > [@drewder](#): > > …in fact i would say plant matter is responsible for more overweightness than meat is. … … huh? ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2012, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/115 "2012-05-26T01:42:01Z")
> [@SnakeBabe](#): > > huh? Stuff like grasses, twigs, and leaves that humans can’t digest well, but deer, cows, sheep, etc. do fine on. > [@](#): > > huh? Processed food. Potato chips, Twinkies, candy bars, soda pop, french fries, onion rings… ---
**Author:** ![Michael63129](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3da27b/32.png) [@Michael63129](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael63129)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/116 "2012-05-26T03:06:49Z")
> [@SnakeBabe](#): > > I think you are giving the cruelty free side some hep with this one. 🙂 Getting fat is part of the problem with meat, obesity is much more common in those that eat animal products. Plus, diabetes, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, heart disease, cancers, and more are greatly increased in meat eaters over those on a vegan diet. To me that gives evidence that we shouldn’t eat it. [Not necessarily](http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/news/20100517/processed-meat-linked-to-heart-disease-risks). Note that this goes back to the same thing **ZenBeam** pointed out - processed food, in this case, meat that has been cured with preservatives, and as he also pointed out, non-animal products are what most junk food is made of; the bun in a hamburger is more unhealthy that the meat if it is made with (partially) hydrogenated oil and refined flour, as is often the case; I recently saw a burger box which had 400 calories - half of which came from simple carbs, at least it didn’t have hydrogenated oil (which was originally intended to be a more “healthy” alternative to animal fats; it still showed a gram of trans fat because beef naturally contains some, [but it has the opposite effects of the artificial kind](http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/04/080402152140.htm)). Of course, I also mentioned previously that meat-eaters like the Inuit didn’t suffer from any of the aliments you mention until recently, when their diets became Westernized (one should note though that that modern farming methods create meat that isn’t as healthy as wild caught meat or pasture-raised meat, with more saturated fat and a high omega 6/3 ratio, thanks to a grain-based diet; eating grain directly still gives you excessive omega-6, [which likely contributes to those illnesses](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omega-6_fatty_acid#Negative_health_effects)). ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2012, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/117 "2012-05-26T09:26:39Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > In fact I would say plant matter is responsible for more overweightness than meat is. you could, but you’d be arguing against a strawman since vegetarians are [less likely to be obese](http://www.ajcn.org/content/81/6/1267.full) and [more likely to live longer](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10555529) than meat eaters. > [@ZenBeam](#): > > Stuff like grasses, twigs, and leaves that humans can’t digest well, but deer, cows, sheep, etc. do fine on. This is also a strawman, since the average carnivorous activity involves hunting down, killing and consuming the raw flesh of prey or scavenging for the results of another animal doing as such. Not something most meat eaters would find palatable. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/118 "2012-05-26T16:32:18Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > This is also a strawman, since the average carnivorous activity involves hunting down, killing and consuming the raw flesh of prey or scavenging for the results of another animal doing as such. Not something most meat eaters would find palatable. It’s not a strawman argument, because it’s not an argument at all. It’s part of the answer to **SnakeBabe** ’s (implied) question. And frankly, I have no idea what mental process you followed to get from my post to carnivores “hunting down, killing and consuming the raw flesh of prey”. ---
**Author:** ![SnakeBabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SnakeBabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnakeBabe)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/119 "2012-05-26T17:05:15Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > … > And frankly, I have no idea what mental process you followed to get from my post to carnivores “hunting down, killing and consuming the raw flesh of prey”. I think because “hunting down, killing and consuming the raw flesh of prey” is naturally what the average carnivore does, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2012, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349/120 "2012-05-26T17:10:24Z")
> [@SnakeBabe](#): > > I think because “hunting down, killing and consuming the raw flesh of prey” is naturally what the average carnivore does, isn’t it? Pretty much, up until the invention of the drive-through. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-as-carnivores/620349.md?page=7)