# Humans Thrived in the Americas over 30,000 Years Ago **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 25, 2020, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-thrived-in-the-americas-over-30-000-years-ago/916304 "2020-07-25T07:58:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![PlaceboTarget](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/placebotarget/32/1073_2.png) [@PlaceboTarget](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlaceboTarget)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-thrived-in-the-americas-over-30-000-years-ago/916304/1 "2020-07-25T07:58:14Z")
New discoveries seem to confirm hypotheses put forth by those who believe the Americas were populated by humans long before the Clovis people, according to [this article](https://www.msn.com/en-xl/northamerica/top-stories/earliest-evidence-for-humans-in-the-americas/ar-BB173yLC?ocid=msedgdhp). A team from Mexico has analyzed human artifacts at Chiquihuite Cave and concluded there were human beings living there 33,000 years ago: “Now, Ciprian Ardelean, from the Universidad Autónoma de Zacatecas, Mexico, Tom Higham, from the University of Oxford, and colleagues have found evidence of human occupation stretching back far beyond that date _(the date of the Clovis culture - my note)_, at the Chiquihuite site in the central-northern Mexican Highlands.” The article doesn’t mention it, but I can tell Ciprian Ardelean is a Romanian fellow (or of Romanian origin). ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2020, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-thrived-in-the-americas-over-30-000-years-ago/916304/2 "2020-07-25T19:29:59Z")
Assuming this holds up if they find human remains it would be fascinating to analyze their DNA and find out if they are ancestral to native Indians. I will conjecture not. Or that it won’t hold up. ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2020, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-thrived-in-the-americas-over-30-000-years-ago/916304/3 "2020-07-26T11:49:22Z")
They have had proof before this of pre-Clovis people in the Americas. Monte Verde in Chile, for example. I always thought it was ridiculously arrogant to assume that Clovis was magically the oldest site in the New World. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-thrived-in-the-americas-over-30-000-years-ago/916304/4 "2020-07-27T04:18:12Z")
We are talking about fully modern not archaic humans right? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-thrived-in-the-americas-over-30-000-years-ago/916304/5 "2020-07-27T04:50:00Z")
Pre-Clovis is a done deal. But we’re talking about 15,000 years ago, not 30,000. I’m very skeptical of a date that doubles the present time frame. ---
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-thrived-in-the-americas-over-30-000-years-ago/916304/6 "2020-07-27T04:54:33Z")
They did not find any DNA or fossil evidence to be that specific. They found stone tools and flakes from stone tool making. ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-thrived-in-the-americas-over-30-000-years-ago/916304/7 "2020-07-27T07:53:42Z")
I got my degree in anthropology and my major professor always believed that 20,000 to 25,000 years ago was much more probable for the first people to arrive on the continent than Clovis, which at the time **was** the oldest dated. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2020, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-thrived-in-the-americas-over-30-000-years-ago/916304/8 "2020-07-27T15:10:47Z")
The Clovis First hypothesis has been dead for quite some time, at least 20 years, perhaps more. But whenever a new pre-Clovis site is found, the press releases and news reports all emphasize how this new discovery is in big conflict with the established paradigm. Science is not immune to sensationalization. The 30,000 years BP is extreme, but I’m pretty sure some other site suggested about the same age. Can’t remember which one though. ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2020, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-thrived-in-the-americas-over-30-000-years-ago/916304/9 "2020-07-28T11:39:14Z")
Monte Verde in Chile, probably. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2020, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-thrived-in-the-americas-over-30-000-years-ago/916304/10 "2020-07-28T12:07:10Z")
Is it possible and credible that maybe only a small group came this early, and didn’t establish themselves, so they died out and there was a long gap before the next group came? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2020, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-thrived-in-the-americas-over-30-000-years-ago/916304/11 "2020-07-28T12:20:33Z")
I thought it might be Monte Verde, but Wikipedia says 18K BP for that. Possibly it was one of the Pedra Furada sites in Brazil. At any rate, Wikipedia has a list of pre-Clovis sites: > **[Clovis culture | Evidence of human habitation before Clovis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clovis_culture#Evidence_of_human_habitation_before_Clovis)** > > There have been a great number of archaeological findings across the Americas that date the arrival of humans to the Americas as prior to 11,500–11,000 uncalibrated years before present (YBP). The Buttermilk Creek Complex, located in Salado, Texas, is a site where over 15,000 artifacts have been found. These artifacts are composed of a variety of small stone tool assemblages. These artifacts stratigraphically underlie previously excavated Clovis assemblages, meaning that they were deposited prior... ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2020, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-thrived-in-the-americas-over-30-000-years-ago/916304/12 "2020-07-28T12:38:11Z")
We should keep in mind that all we have are a few tiny glimpses into vast regions of time and space. Almost certainly more discoveries will continue to be made in future, and our knowledge will continue to change and grow. ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2020, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humans-thrived-in-the-americas-over-30-000-years-ago/916304/13 "2020-07-28T13:03:04Z")
Yes, but there have been claims of 33,000 years ago at Monte Verde. > **[Monte Verde: Our Earliest Evidence of Humans Living in South America](https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/monte-verde-our-earliest-evidence-of-humans-living-in-south-america)** > > Monte Verde: Our Earliest Evidence of Humans Living in South America