# Humiliating, degrading pat-downs by airport security teams **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 25, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664 "2004-11-25T18:22:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/1 "2004-11-25T18:22:56Z")
And so it’s come to this. After the twin airline bombings in Russian, the U.S. Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is no subjecting certain passengers to pat-downs–including pat-downs of breasts and groins. Passengers across the nation, most female, are Mad As Hell and say these frisking sessions are too aggressive, too invasive and simply unnecessary. Screeners, meanwhile, say they’re just doing their jobs and the public will have to get used to it. Read below about Patty Labelle being told to remove her shirt. Reactions? [http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-spat23nov23,0,2105646,print.story?coll=sfla-news-broward](http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-spat23nov23,0,2105646,print.story?coll=sfla-news-broward) **Passengers complain about pat-down searches at airports** Shocked by what she perceived as far too intimate a security check, Melanie Higley burst into tears. First, the wand was placed too aggressively between her legs, then the airport screener at Dallas-Fort Worth International groped her, she said. Hysterical, she protested that she was being abused. The screener’s response: She was just doing her job. Higley was then ordered to take off her tennis shoes, which she did – and threw them at the screener. “I was sweating, I was crying, I was a mess,” said Higley, of Jupiter, who was heading to Palm Beach International with her family that September day. “I’ve never been touched like that before by another woman.” Scores of women, and some men, say they have suffered similar humiliation during a pat-down, standard procedure since Sept. 22 in secondary screenings at airport checkpoints. Many protest that it is an unnecessary invasion of privacy, the security process going too far. “People should be outraged, fuming, doing something to change this,” said Rhonda Gaynier, a New York attorney who said she was given a “breast exam” while flying out of Tampa in October. "It’s like we have no rights anymore * * * ---
**Author:** ![Kakkerlak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bb73d2/32.png) [@Kakkerlak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kakkerlak)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/2 "2004-11-25T20:10:11Z")
There’s another way to do it, Miss Over Excited Lady from Jupiter. They’re called “Dogs”. Want to have one of them sniff your breasts ? The young man handling it will assuredly have a pistol, too. Maybe you’re allergic to both of those. There are a few hundred dead Russians who would have loved to get a little squeeze. Yes, it’s come to this. It’s the price of arriving in one piece instead of hundreds. ---
**Author:** ![LordVor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90ced4/32.png) [@LordVor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LordVor)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/3 "2004-11-25T20:12:14Z")
> [@Kakkerlak](#): > > There are a few hundred dead Russians who would have loved to get a little squeeze. > > Yes, it’s come to this. It’s the price of arriving in one piece instead of hundreds. IIRC, the Chechen women didn’t even go through the security checkpoint, they bribed their way onto the runway and then bought a seat directly from the flight attendant. Just saying. -lv ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/4 "2004-11-25T20:39:34Z")
This is also the third thread in as many months on the same topic. Search, friends. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Freejooky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ba8739/32.png) [@Freejooky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freejooky)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2004, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/5 "2004-11-25T20:44:54Z")
> [@Carnac the Magnificent!](#): > > “I was sweating, I was crying, I was a mess,” said Higley, of Jupiter, who was heading to Palm Beach International with her family that September day. “I’ve never been touched like that before by another woman.” Does anyone else find that incredibly hot? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Jammer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@Jammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jammer)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/6 "2004-11-26T02:59:25Z")
Freejooky for the win! Jammer ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/7 "2004-11-26T03:24:40Z")
Just back from a trip that required transit through Indian airports. The security lines a re gender segregated, and female passengers go into a curtained area to be wanded and groped as required (lady security agent). Menfolk are pawed publicly. In Kolkata, they wand you twice-once before the boarding gate, then between the gate and the plane out on the tarmac. Except the curtain on the tarmac is in full view of the baggage handlers, who seemed to be more interested in watching the security procedures behind the curtain… :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/8 "2004-11-26T04:09:02Z")
> [@Annie](#): > > Just back from a trip that required transit through Indian airports. The security lines a re gender segregated, and female passengers go into a curtained area to be wanded and groped as required (lady security agent). Menfolk are pawed publicly. > > In Kolkata, they wand you twice-once before the boarding gate, then between the gate and the plane out on the tarmac. Except the curtain on the tarmac is in full view of the baggage handlers, who seemed to be more interested in watching the security procedures behind the curtain… > > :eek: Meanwhile, checked-in luggage goes through largely unscreened, according to TSA sources. Makes a mockery of the entire process. ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/9 "2004-11-26T04:16:37Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > This is also the third thread in as many months on the same topic. Search, friends. 😉 Because the TSA has recently ratcheted up their “up close and personal” searches and these searches are causing a backlash, primarily from women, who say they are demeaning and way over the line. That’s why. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/10 "2004-11-26T11:12:17Z")
> [@LordVor](#): > > IIRC, the Chechen women didn’t even go through the security checkpoint, they bribed their way onto the runway and then bought a seat directly from the flight attendant. You don’t remember correctly. Money did change hands (call that bribery if you want), but it was to change flight times. There was no bribing to get on to the runway, or buying a ticket at the foot of the plane. In fact it would be impossible to do so anyway as Domodyedovo Airport uses either regular jetways or buses to get to the plane. You can’t buy tickets as you enter the plane. I know this as I was there in July. As to the [TSA](http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=40&content=09000519800ce037) policy, if they feel I need to strip down to my underwear to board a flight, I always have the option to say no and drive/take the bus/get on a train etc. I choose to undergo the treatment because a aminutes embarassment is better than being blown out of the sky. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/11 "2004-11-26T15:34:14Z")
> [@](#): > > Yes, it’s come to this. It’s the price of arriving in one piece instead of hundreds. Or it is the price of leaving our personal security to others, or closed to what Ben Franklin said ‘of giving up liberty for security’. Now, Your papers, please. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/12 "2004-11-26T17:00:53Z")
While surfing the TSA site that Tapioca Dextrin mentioned, I found [this page](http://www.tsa.gov/public/mdisplay?theme=204) rather humorous: > [@](#): > > What Others Are Saying About TSA > > Letters, Quotes and Stories > > Here is a smattering of the written recognition TSA screeners and staff have received for a job well done. TSA reserves the right to edit submissions for length, style and grammar. > November 2004 > > No content found for this month. Yep, I’d be standing there with my pants undone (as has been done by airport security a few times) while my wife is being groped by a screener, thinking, “Man, I am going to have to write and tell them how well they’re doing their job.” ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2004, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/13 "2004-11-26T20:51:25Z")
> [@Tapioca Dextrin](#): > > I choose to undergo the treatment because a aminutes embarassment is better than being blown out of the sky. Meanwhile, most every piece of checked luggage is either not screened or poorly screened, per TSA’s own admission or independent confirmation. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/14 "2004-11-27T00:44:23Z")
Actually, when I did germany in Feb, I got patted down both directions, once by a woman and once by a man [there was a butt-ton of people and I just wanted to get through to get on the plane.] Neither patdown made me uncomfortable, neither patter-down acted in anything other than a professional and courteous manner, I was wanded and patted[underwire bra.] I also took my shoes off [loafers are great for traveling=)] To be blunt about it, maybe it was because I was patient, and polite, and did what they asked when they asked with a minimum of comment…but WTF is the big deal? They were perfectly civil, it was over and done with in a couple of minutes, but I have gotten groped worse in a bar trying to get a drink. ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/15 "2004-11-27T00:48:10Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Now, Your papers, please. Papers? Papers? Yes, yes, got one right here! [sub] _RUN!_ [/sub] Egyptian Times, morning edition, just finished reading it. [sub] _RUN!_ [/sub] [/Sallah] ---
**Author:** ![LordVor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90ced4/32.png) [@LordVor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LordVor)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/16 "2004-11-27T02:47:18Z")
> [@Tapioca Dextrin](#): > > You don’t remember [correctly](http://www.airdisaster.com/news/0904/17/news.shtml). Money did change hands (call that bribery if you want), but it was to change flight times. There was no bribing to get on to the runway, or buying a ticket at the foot of the plane. While my details weren’t correct, your story (I fixed the link) supports my opinion. Security did ask that police detain the women. Money may or may not have changed hands for the policeman to let them go, but the police did confiscate their passports. It should have ended there, since they shouldn’t have been able to travel without id. But then they bought tickets from a third-party “speculator”, who almost certainly had bribed the ticket-taker to let the women on despite the fact that their names weren’t on the tickets. So, if the ticket-taker had done her job, or the policeman had done his job better, they never would have made it onto the plane in the first place without the need to grope everybody getting on the plane. Now, lets say that we should do even more invasive searches of every man, woman and child. At all the major airports, on many occasions a month, there are hundreds of people lined up behind the security choke-point. If you were a terrorist, and you wanted to disrupt national air service while killing as many people as possible, wouldn’t you blow yourself up **at** the security gate instead of trying to smuggle anything **through** it? -lv ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/17 "2004-11-27T02:53:03Z")
> [@Kakkerlak](#): > > There’s another way to do it, Miss Over Excited Lady from Jupiter. > > They’re called “Dogs”. Want to have one of them sniff your breasts ? Dogs are trained to find drugs, not explosives. :rolleyes: Anyway…does anyone know what screening and training security guards are put through before being allowed to deal with the public in a way that even many doctors would be hard-pushed to justify? ---
**Author:** ![akennett](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ee59a6/32.png) [@akennett](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/akennett)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/18 "2004-11-27T13:46:56Z")
[QUOTE=GorillaMan] Dogs are trained to find drugs, not explosives. :rolleyes: [QUOTE] The most commonly thought of use for dogs in airports may be for drug searches, but they do have trained, explosive-sniffing dogs. ---
**Author:** ![Medea\_s\_Child](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Medea\_s\_Child](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Medea_s_Child)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/19 "2004-11-27T17:02:21Z")
Count me in the rather be sniffed by a puppy group and I’ll also take a vote for adding new security measures only after the old ones are actually being used. Groping my breasts while I can check a bag full of C4 wired to an alarm clock does no one any good. Well, maybe the security agent who is getting his/her jollies off a power trip with their hand in my clevage rather than the boring job of watching a scanner. ---
**Author:** ![Tiggrkitty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tiggrkitty/32/17966_2.png) [@Tiggrkitty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tiggrkitty)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664/20 "2004-11-27T18:36:48Z")
Security or not, it totally creeps me out to have a stranger touch me. When I was in my teens, I had taken a summer job working at a Cafeteria. During my shift there were two guys that would stock the serving dishes under the counter. They always seemed to wait until I was serving a customer to restock the dishes, and both of them ALWAYS managed to brush the back of their hand against my legs or ribcage as they put the plates away. If I moved, I would notice them extending an index finger to make contact with me. I complained to the management about it, but they did nothing to prevent it and I ended up quiting. I should also mention that when I was in my teens I was also raped by a guy down the street that had broke into my parents house while they were away. While waiting in a deli line to grab a sandwich I have felt pulls or tugs to my hair. When I turn around there is normally a man that just “had to check” if my hair was real or not. I actually had one nitwit reach into a closing elevator to touch my bangs. It made me flinch because it looked like he was going to hit me in the face. Some of you might not mind at being touched/searched, but honestly it freaks me out because it has happened to me way to many times. I can appreciate the security concerns, however; some of us would really rather not be touched by people we do not know, back of hand or not. I live in Dallas and work remote from my peer group. My manager forces us to travel 4 times a year to “visit” his office in Washington state. Since the security changes I may have to go to HR and find out if I am forced to travel because of the new security changes and my preference not to be groped. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humiliating-degrading-pat-downs-by-airport-security-teams/276664.md?page=2)