# Humor that doesn’t age well **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** comedian-jokes\ **Created:** [August 29, 2021, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723 "2021-08-29T13:07:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/161 "2021-09-03T21:24:46Z")
The third act has been a problem all through history, except that Shakespeare called it the fifth act and placed all his problems there. Then plays got too long for audiences and Broadway put all of its problems into the second act. Novelists don’t have this issue. They refer to the failed part as the “ending.” ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2021, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/162 "2021-09-03T23:30:57Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > If you want to argue that things are more oppressive today than they used to be, maybe don’t use an example of a guy in the '60s who was literally put on trial for his standup routine? True. Nobody is getting arrested these days for humor that upsets the squares. Then again as mentioned earlier we suffer from the biased sample of seeing the good **and/or** commercially succesful **and/or** notoriously controversial stuff that endured, out of context of how it was received in real time. Had a Bruce or Carlin or Pryor been coming up today, they would be doing humor that challenges the establishment _ **of today** _. > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Novelists don’t have this issue. They refer to the failed part as the “ending.” Or they make it a series and kick it to a future book. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/163 "2021-09-04T05:54:24Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > Had a Bruce or Carlin or Pryor been coming up today, they would be doing humor that challenges the establishment _ **of today** _ . Indeed. And isn’t MeToo et al the establishment today? Isn’t it? With Crystal, Davis Jr. was alive when that portrayal took place. He presumptively was aware of it. I still need to be offended by it, even if Davis Jr. wasn’t? Davis Jr. himself was wrong not to be offended? No actor can ever portray an actual person again, because it’s impossible to embody every facet of another human being. Crystal and Davis Jr. were both Jewish, both male. Crystal wasn’t African American, nor has he lost an eye. Can’t sing and dance as well either. So no portrayals of actual people ever, and the people themselves can’t consent to being portrayed either. They can’t even portray themselves, because they were different people at different points in their lives, and a past version or future version of themselves might be offended by the portrayal. So there we are. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/164 "2021-09-04T08:32:24Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > They made _American Pie_ in 1999. Don’t they still make those kinds of movies today? There’s still teen/university sex comedies being made; I thought [_Blockers_](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockers_(film)) was really well done and a hell of a lot better than you’d expect. There’s also _Big Mouth_ and _Sex Education_ on Netflix, the former of which is far raunchier than anything you’d have gotten away with in the past. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/165 "2021-09-04T09:41:30Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Third act bullshit. Some of Robin Williams’ films were very good at this “third act bullshit.” The first part would be Williams clowning, doing what he did best, and making us all laugh. The second part (the third act, if you like) would get very dark and serious. Examples would include _Good Morning Vietnam_, _Patch Adams_, and _Dead Poets Society_. If Williams stuck to a total comedy, he did well. _The Birdcage_ was fun, as was _RV_ and _Moscow on the Hudson_. He was equally good at an all-drama film, like _Awakenings_ and _August Rush_. Problems occurred when he tried to mix the two: comedy up front, and drama in the third act. I can easily rewatch _Awakenings_ or _The Birdcage_. I cannot rewatch _Good Morning Vietnam_, or _Patch Adams_. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/166 "2021-09-04T15:07:24Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > So there we are. Well, there you are. I don’t think you’re speaking for the rest of us. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/167 "2021-09-04T15:30:44Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Sure, but it wasn’t exactly a cornerstone of his act - it’s not like, “You can’t do blackface,” would hamstring his career the way, say, “You can’t do sexist nursery rhymes,” would hamstring Andrew Clay. Actually, it would. We’ve gotten to a point where ANY racial “transgression,” no matter how far in the past, or how minor, is nearly certain to be a career-killer. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/168 "2021-09-04T15:49:29Z")
Take away the blackface and there is nothing racially offensive about Billy Crystal’s Sammy Davis Jr. impersonation. Blackface has very specific historical baggage that makes it unwise for any comedian now that we (well, most of us) have been educated about it. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/169 "2021-09-04T15:56:58Z")
> [@Bootb](#): > > We’ve gotten to a point where ANY racial “transgression,” no matter how far in the past, or how minor, is nearly certain to be a career-killer. That is so obviously not true, I’m not even going to bother posting the incredibly long list of currently successful and respected entertainers who have such transgressions in their past. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/170 "2021-09-04T17:30:42Z")
Ted Danson for example. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/171 "2021-09-04T18:13:32Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > ake away the blackface and there is nothing racially offensive about Billy Crystal’s Sammy Davis Jr. impersonation. Blackface has very specific historical baggage that makes it unwise for any comedian now that we (well, most of us) have been educated about it. Blackface was unacceptable for decades before Crystal’s impression. Crystal’s makeup was also realistic, not the exaggerated makeup that the minstrel performers wore. Crystal’s impression exaggerated Davis Jr.'s Jewishness, not his blackness. The makeup was the realistic, straight part of the act. Crystal and Davis Jr. were both Jewish. Contemporary Eddie Murphy has wore realistic lighter makeup multiple times to play different characters. Murphy has also portrayed Jewish characters, though Murphy is not Jewish himself. Are these portrayals equally offensive? ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/172 "2021-09-04T18:13:51Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Well, there you are. I don’t think you’re speaking for the rest of us. Nor do you. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/173 "2021-09-04T18:18:18Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > That is so obviously not true, I’m not even going to bother posting the incredibly long list of currently successful and respected entertainers who have such transgressions in their past. You’re right. I haven’t heard anyone complain about Fred Armisen’s impression of Prince or Barack Obama yet. The truth is that you never know what’s going to be dragged up from the past to upset people on the internet these days. Ted Danson’s blackface seems to have been largely overlooked, but them he got roasted pretty hard for it at the time. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/174 "2021-09-04T18:23:50Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Crystal’s impression exaggerated Davis Jr.'s Jewishness, not his blackness. The makeup was the realistic, straight part of the act. Crystal and Davis Jr. were both Jewish. The two times I remember when Monty Python had people in makeup designed to make people look like they are of African descent, there were offensive parts of the portrayals, but the makeup wasn’t part of it. As a matter of fact, it make me feel a little bit for people who did use exaggeration in blackface, because every damn time I see the skits I initially think the light-skinned Caucasian actor with darkened skin is playing an Indian, even when I know what’s coming up. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/175 "2021-09-04T18:35:18Z")
Danson’s culpability in that has always been iffy. From his WIki bio: “Later, [Whoopi] Goldberg defended the sketch, explaining that she had helped write much of the material and referred Danson to the makeup artist who painted his face as a societal critique.” He and Goldberg were partners at the time, and they planned the spoof for a Friar’s Club Roast of her, mocking the over-the-top racial, sexist, homophobic, etc. etc. jokes that were standard from the Friar’s in the old days. They were also getting hate mail for being an interracial couple. Unless Danson put in terrible stuff on his own that she didn’t know about, the backlash said more about the world than the skit. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/176 "2021-09-04T19:31:08Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > The two times I remember when Monty Python had people in makeup designed to make people look like they are of African descent, there were offensive parts of the portrayals, but the makeup wasn’t part of it. As a matter of fact, it make me feel a little bit for people who did use exaggeration in blackface, because every damn time I see the skits I initially think the light-skinned Caucasian actor with darkened skin is playing an Indian, even when I know what’s coming up. I’m not sure that any genuine blackface ever made it into talkies. But performers like Stepin Fetchit offended people by how they acted, even if the actors were cast in racially correct roles. It seems to me that over time, there was a tendency to view those actors in a kinder light, given the limitations on how African Americans of the time were allowed to act on the screen. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/177 "2021-09-04T20:30:32Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Crystal did blackface to play Sammy Davis Jr. He also put on blackface to play a retired Negro League ballplayer, in an SNL video. [https://images.app.goo.gl/1Z1h9YZRAf98vRyR6](https://images.app.goo.gl/1Z1h9YZRAf98vRyR6) ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2021, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/178 "2021-09-04T22:00:49Z")
Oh dear. It definitely made it into the Talkies. Here’s Judy Garland [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/ok5R9wDc44k/hqdefault.jpg "The Black American National Anthem - Judy Garland") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok5R9wDc44k) ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/179 "2021-09-05T00:04:52Z")
Nice analysis, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![Galactus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galactus/32/3581_2.png) [@Galactus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Galactus)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723/180 "2021-09-05T15:49:32Z")
Or this scene from HOLIDAY INN starring Bing Crosby. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/8pP64FKL7J0/hqdefault.jpg "Holiday Inn 1942 Abraham Lincoln Scene with Bing Crosby with Blackface") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pP64FKL7J0) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/humor-that-doesn-t-age-well/949723.md?page=10)