# Hunter Biden artwork attracts ethics scrutiny **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 8, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031 "2021-07-08T21:55:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/181 "2021-07-10T12:33:33Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I don’t recall any of us saying that Ivanka is a 40 year old adult and her father can’t control what she does as a private citizen with regards to her financial affairs. Let’s try this again… Ivanka wasn’t a “private citizen”. Ivanka was a government employee, an official White House advisor and Director of the Office of Economic Initiatives and Entrepreneurship. Hunter Biden is neither of these things, he is not an advisor, official or unofficial, he has no role in the White House, no office, no staff. He is a private citizen. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/182 "2021-07-10T12:40:54Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#): > > I’d like to agree with this, and potentially amplify it. Forget it, Dave. It’s PoliticalPurityTestTown\*. - I was going to say _Woketown_, but I’m not a monster. 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/183 "2021-07-10T12:41:45Z")
That there is even a debate on whether or not there’s an ethics problem here does not bode well for America’s immediate future IMO. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/184 "2021-07-10T12:43:18Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > If they need proof, the buyer can send them a picture of the damned thing. This is a charade. They can do that, and they’d all be guilty of bribery at that point, after they’ve given the public notice of a potential conflict of interest. That would be suicidal. Just because it’s blind to the public and the parties involved doesn’t mean it’s blind to the FBI. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > What the ‘blind’ sale does is keep the public from knowing who is paying this kind of money to the son of a President, and protect Biden from liability if the buyer happens to be an agent for some state or large corporation, say one looking for a subsidy for their proposed infrastructure project. > > The idea that a guy who just learned to paint a little while ago, with no history of selling any paintings, would be able to collect this amount of money from legitimate buyers seems pretty iffy. And that’s being charitable. Wow. Were you this fired up about nepotism when [the RNC bought $300K worth of Don Jr.'s book to force it to the top of bestseller lists](https://www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2020/12/04/report-rnc-spent-more-than-300000-on-donald-trump-jrs-new-book/?sh=20b897616fe7)? I sure was. Or when [the Chinese government issued 18 trademarks to a company called “Ivanka Trump LLC”](https://apnews.com/article/0a3283036d2f4e699da4aa3c6dd01727)? I sure was. I’m not a huge fan of Hunter trading on his father’s name like this, as I’ve said earlier in the thread. But if you didn’t call out the Trumps while they were stealing everything that wasn’t nailed down (as Republicans cheerfully did), then your opinions carry zero credibility on the topic of graft or corruption. Nobody’s going to listen to you, nor should they. ---
**Author:** ![SuntanLotion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suntanlotion/32/16165_2.png) [@SuntanLotion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuntanLotion)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/185 "2021-07-10T13:22:00Z")
Does anyone know how old Hunter Biden is? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/186 "2021-07-10T13:24:51Z")
Google: How old is Hunter Biden? 1. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/187 "2021-07-10T13:52:31Z")
But who cares? Maybe Hunter sucks. Why would this matter at all? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/188 "2021-07-10T13:58:03Z")
We’re having this conversation because to some of us, it matters. Whether it matters in the grand scheme of things is irrelevant. Most of the conversations we have on this message board don’t matter in the grand scheme of things. We’re just talking here, right? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/189 "2021-07-10T14:10:06Z")
The broader discussion has included President Biden. If you’re just criticizing Hunter for profiting from his name, and think this has nothing to do with the President or his administration, then that’s fine with me. I don’t care a whit about Hunter. But if you’re making a criticism of the President on relation to this, then that’s nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/190 "2021-07-10T14:12:05Z")
> [@Ann\_Hedonia](#): > > It’s certainly on par with some of the expensive post-modern art I’ve seen, but art is weird, some distinctly unimpressive stuff consistently fetches the big bucks. Like On Kawara’s date paintings, and pretty much every rich person I ever worked for has at least one of those. Is it not however the case that art valuation is only remotely related to quality, but very tightly related to who the artist is? Who their influences were, who their mentors were, their life story, and yes… their celebrity name. It’s obvious someone wants to own something with the name ‘Biden’ on it, and this is driving the valuation far beyond the merits. I mean, can you think of any no-name creator of comparable work who pulled in a half million for it? Most people flog their wares in patchouli-scented vendor tents for years and are lucky to pull in a thousand bucks a piece by the end of their career. It’s different when you’re famous and everyone knows it. Look, I’m on record saying that after the Trump years, Republicans are now, undeniably, the party of enthusiastic graft and corruption when their side does it. They have zero room to complain about any of this. But Biden is clearly an entry-level artist with no professional training, and not an existing fixture in the art world. I don’t believe anyone’s buying access to Joe via Hunter’s art transaction. Hunter is going to rake in at least a cool half mil for doing next to nothing while named Biden, which is the only job he’s ever had. No matter how many people correctly point out that the Trumps were a million times worse, no matter how many people point out this scandal is very convenient to the right-wing outrage machine, this kind of behavior is never going to sit well with me. Neither the nepotism, nor the attitude “hey, wealthy failsons gotta make a living”, nor the attitude “it’s different when we do it.” ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/191 "2021-07-10T14:14:22Z")
But why does this matter? Maybe Hunter is a piece of shit. Who cares? What does this have to do with the President or the Democratic party? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/192 "2021-07-10T14:19:21Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But why does this matter? Maybe Hunter is a piece of shit. Who cares? What does this have to do with the President or the Democratic party? If you’re still asking at this point in the thread, I’m reminded of the aphorism “it’s impossible to awaken someone who’s pretending to be asleep.” I have no interest in trying. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/193 "2021-07-10T14:25:29Z")
I’ve looked. I haven’t seen any actual explanation of why this matters for the President. The President has no control over Hunter’s behavior. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/194 "2021-07-10T14:27:24Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I mean, can you think of any no-name creator of comparable work who pulled in a half million for it? Lots of people come up quickly and go from a couple of grand per piece to hundreds of thousands (or millions) a few years later. Let’s start with [Loie Hollowell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loie_Hollowell), for example. Her highest priced piece sold for over $2 million and she was a nobody not that long ago. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/195 "2021-07-10T14:34:37Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > Let’s start with [Loie Hollowell](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loie_Hollowell), for example. Her highest priced piece sold for over $2 million and she was a nobody not that long ago. She made her name solely through her art. Hunter made his name by being a Biden. She has a BA in art and an MA in painting. Hunter is a law-school grad who (AFAIK) has never even practiced law. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/196 "2021-07-10T14:34:43Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > No matter how many people correctly point out that the Trumps were a million times worse, no matter how many people point out this scandal is very convenient to the right-wing outrage machine, this kind of behavior is never going to sit well with me. Neither the nepotism, nor the attitude “hey, wealthy failsons gotta make a living”, nor the attitude “it’s different when we do it.” The title of this thread is, “Hunter Biden artwork attracts ethics scrutiny,” not “Hunter Biden is enjoying undeserved success.” As I and any number of posters have stated, if anyone wants to criticize Hunter Biden for cashing in on the family name, have at. If that’s all you’re doing, I don’t think anyone in this thread is actually arguing with you. The argument in this thread is about the “ethics” part. So, I have a couple of open questions to anyone in this thread who thinks there’s an ethics issue. What, exactly, is the ethical rule that’s being breached, or potentially breached? Who, exactly, is breaching it, or potentially breaching it? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/197 "2021-07-10T14:37:38Z")
Excellent summation! ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/198 "2021-07-10T14:38:41Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > She made her name solely through her art. Hunter made his name by being a Biden. So the question that I answered (and quoted from you) wasn’t really your question? What question would you like an answer to? ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/199 "2021-07-10T14:39:51Z")
Agreed - this is a nothing burger of a ‘scandal’. No doubt, Hunter is a headache for President Biden at times, but this is inconsequential. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/200 "2021-07-10T14:41:01Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > What, exactly, is the ethical rule that’s being breached, or potentially breached? Who, exactly, is breaching it, or potentially breaching it? There exists the potential for someone like Mark Zuckerberg to say “hey, I’ll keep your failson afloat by throwing a half mil for his crappy art, if you’re willing to play ball on regulatory issues.” Theoretically the blind trust is a vehicle to mitigate that conflict of interest. But it wouldn’t be very hard to circumvent it. When conflicts of interest exist, the expected strategy is to somehow extricate oneself from the conflict. Not to say “I know this looks shady, but believe me it’s totally legit.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031.md?page=11)