# Hunter Biden artwork attracts ethics scrutiny **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 8, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031 "2021-07-08T21:55:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/201 "2021-07-10T14:42:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > But if you’re making a criticism of the President on relation to this, then that’s nonsense. Hunter’s failures have been sufficiently documented in this thread. I trust I don’t need to repeat them. Joe is not responsible for Hunter’s bad decisions. Hunter is an adult, after all. But most of us know that there are negative consequences to bad decisions and most of us don’t live a life of privilege in which our name recognition somehow always saves us from the worst of the consequences. And not just saves us but actually rewards us financially while having done little to nothing to deserve it. Now you may well ask what that has to do with Joe Biden. I may well ask what does it _not_ have to do with Joe Biden? Now, do I expect Joe to abandon his son? Of course not. A father loves his son. Who isn’t sympathetic to that instinct? But in the best possible light, Joe Biden has been over-indulgent and looked the other way. From a political instinct point of view, that has not worked well for him. So it would behoove Joe, while he’s president, to have a conversation with his son and encourage him to put higher considerations above his own personal financial gains. Perhaps Hunter is too selfish and inconsiderate to do that. Or, perhaps, Joe is too indulgent. Or, and I realize a Democratic president would never do this, perhaps Joe is tacitly complicit in Hunter’s shenanigans and is satisfied with making this the problem for the White House Office of Ethics. Now, does that make Biden worse than Trump? Does it make him a bad president? I’ve certainly not said or implied that. But plenty of people have tripped over themselves rushing to accuse those daring to be critical of this latest development of being \ Republican propaganda rubes. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/202 "2021-07-10T14:42:40Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > > [@gdave](#): > > > > What, exactly, is the ethical rule that’s being breached, or potentially breached? Who, exactly, is breaching it, or potentially breaching it? > > There exists the potential for someone like Mark Zuckerberg to say “hey, I’ll keep your failson afloat by throwing a half mil for his crappy art, if you’re willing to play ball on regulatory issues.” > > Theoretically the blind trust is a vehicle to mitigate that conflict of interest. But it wouldn’t be very hard to circumvent it. > > When conflicts of interest exist, the expected strategy is to somehow extricate oneself from the conflict. Not to say “I know this looks shady, but believe me it’s totally legit.” The possibility of a conflict of interest always exists. Hunter Biden existing as a human being on planet Earth creates the possibility for a conflict of interest – someone could offer him money in exchange for trying to influence his father. Until there’s evidence of an actual conflict of interest, who cares? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/203 "2021-07-10T14:44:34Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > > But if you’re making a criticism of the President on relation to this, then that’s nonsense. > > Hunter’s failures have been sufficiently documented in this thread. I trust I don’t need to repeat them. Joe is not responsible for Hunter’s bad decisions. Hunter is an adult, after all. But most of us know that there are negative consequences to bad decisions and most of us don’t live a life of privilege in which our name recognition somehow always saves us from the worst of the consequences. And not just saves us but actually rewards us financially while having done little to nothing to deserve it. > > Now you may well ask what that has to do with Joe Biden. I may well ask what does it _not_ have to do with Joe Biden? Now, do I expect Joe to abandon his son? Of course not. A father loves his son. Who isn’t sympathetic to that instinct? But in the best possible light, Joe Biden has been over-indulgent and looked the other way. From a political instinct point of view, that has not worked well for him. So it would behoove Joe, while he’s president, to have a conversation with his son and encourage him to put higher considerations above his own personal financial gains. Perhaps Hunter is too selfish and inconsiderate to do that. Or, perhaps, Joe is too indulgent. Or, and I realize a Democratic president would never do this, perhaps Joe is tacitly complicit in Hunter’s shenanigans and is satisfied with making this the problem for the White House Office of Ethics. Now, does that make Biden worse than Trump? Does it make him a bad president? I’ve certainly not said or implied that. But plenty of people have tripped over themselves rushing to accuse those daring to be critical of this latest development of being \ Republican propaganda rubes. I’m sorry, I assumed you were like me and had no idea about what kind of personal conversations Joe Biden has had with his son. If you’re aware of all the conversations Joe has had with his son, and he’s never said anything like this before, then I agree with you that Joe Biden has been over-indulgent. Can you tell me more about the personal conversations Joe has had with Hunter? What other personal and private conversations has Joe Biden had that you have detailed knowledge about? Can you share how you obtained this knowledge? I expect you could make a lot of money with this kind of information. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/204 "2021-07-10T14:45:14Z")
> [@DMC](#): > > So the question that I answered (and quoted from you) wasn’t really your question? Do you think Loie Hollowell, a trained artist with a master’s degree, is a comparable example to Hunter Biden, an untrained outsider with no skills other than being named Biden? ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/205 "2021-07-10T14:47:27Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > There exists the potential for someone like Mark Zuckerberg to say “hey, I’ll keep your failson afloat by throwing a half mil for his crappy art, if you’re willing to play ball on regulatory issues.” > > Theoretically the blind trust is a vehicle to mitigate that conflict of interest. But it wouldn’t be very hard to circumvent it. > > When conflicts of interest exist, the expected strategy is to somehow extricate oneself from the conflict. Not to say “I know this looks shady, but believe me it’s totally legit.” Again, what, exactly, is the ethical rule? Relatives a sitting President aren’t allowed to sell artwork? Or is it just a “I know it when I see it” rule that relatives of a sitting President aren’t allowed to engage in activities that create a perception of potential for influence peddling? Something else? And, again, who, exactly, is violating or potentially violating this rule? Has President _Joe_ Biden done anything unethical? If so, what? Is _Hunter_ Biden the one violating this rule? If so, how can a private citizen be bound by special ethics rules just because they happen to be related to a sitting President? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/206 "2021-07-10T14:47:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Until there’s evidence of an actual conflict of interest, who cares? This isn’t how government ethics is supposed to work. You’re supposed to _eliminate_ the conflict of interest. It’s frowned upon (or was, until Trump) to say “yeah there’s a conflict, but deal with it because you can’t prove we’re doing anything wrong.” I’m not President and I don’t know how Joe should mitigate it. I assume he has an army of attorneys and advisors who can help him get right, and as a constituent (and Biden voter!) I expect him to do so. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/207 "2021-07-10T14:48:16Z")
What evidence is there of a conflict of interest? So far, all I can see is the potential for a conflict of interest, which will exist until everyone and everything Joe Biden cares about has expired (or his presidency ends). ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/208 "2021-07-10T14:48:44Z")
This isn’t how government ethics is supposed to work. You’re supposed to _eliminate_ the conflict of interest. It’s frowned upon (or was, until Trump) to say “yeah there’s a conflict, but deal with it because you can’t prove we’re doing anything wrong.” I’m not President and I don’t know how Joe should mitigate it. I assume he has an army of attorneys and advisors who can help him get right, and as a constituent (and Biden voter!) I expect him to do so. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/209 "2021-07-10T14:49:31Z")
Since you’re repeating yourself… What evidence is there of a conflict of interest? So far, all I can see is the potential for a conflict of interest, which will exist until everyone and everything Joe Biden cares about has expired (or his presidency ends). ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/210 "2021-07-10T14:52:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Since you’re repeating yourself… Oh come on. Here’s you 7 minutes ago: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Until there’s evidence of an actual conflict of interest, who cares? And here’s you 3 minutes ago: > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > What evidence is there of a conflict of interest? As long as you keep repeating the question, I’m going to keep repeating the answer. Conflicts of interest are supposed to be addressed by eliminating them, not by saying “what can ya do.” ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/211 "2021-07-10T14:52:56Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > This isn’t how government ethics is supposed to work. You’re supposed to _eliminate_ the conflict of interest. Hunter Biden is a private citizen. He isn’t bound by government ethics rules. > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I’m not President and I don’t know how Joe should mitigate it. I assume he has an army of attorneys and advisors who can help him get right, and as a constituent (and Biden voter!) I expect him to do so. So…you don’t know what President Biden should do about the actions of a private citizen, you just expect him to do…something. I am frankly at a loss here. I genuinely don’t know how to respond to that. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/212 "2021-07-10T14:53:31Z")
If you think the MA is the difference, I’ll let you in on the secret that an MA and a wine key will get you a good job at many nice restaurants. So if I list the artists who don’t have a degree do you share the question you really want an answer to? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/213 "2021-07-10T14:54:03Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m sorry, I assumed you were like me and had no idea about what kind of personal conversations Joe Biden has had with his son. If you’re aware of all the conversations Joe has had with his son, and he’s never said anything like this before, then I agree with you that Joe Biden has been over-indulgent. > > Can you tell me more about the personal conversations Joe has had with Hunter? What other personal and private conversations has Joe Biden had that you have detailed knowledge about? Can you share how you obtained this knowledge? I expect you could make a lot of money with this kind of information. I keep mistaking this for a conversation in the court of public opinion, not an actual summation before a court of law. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/214 "2021-07-10T14:54:04Z")
I agree – eliminate conflicts of interest. Sounds good to me! But what does this have to do with this situation? You’ve presented no evidence of a conflict of interest. The potential for a conflict of interest is a different matter, and impossible to eliminate, barring perhaps infanticide. So I ask again – what is the evidence for an actual conflict of interest, as opposed to the potential for a conflict of interest (which will exist as long as human beings have families they love)? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/215 "2021-07-10T14:54:24Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > I mean, can you think of any no-name creator of comparable work who pulled in a half million for it? I couldn’t tell you anything about any art transactions at all, really. I think Banksy sold some stuff on the street anonymously for like a hundred bucks one day sometime int he last 20 years; I heard about that. How many art transactions in the last ten years do you know off the top of your head? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/216 "2021-07-10T14:55:17Z")
What does your mind-reading have to do with the court of public opinion? I thought you were saying you believe Joe Biden should have a specific conversation with Hunter. That presumes that he hasn’t done this already. Why are you presuming that he hasn’t done this already? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/217 "2021-07-10T14:56:18Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > So…you don’t know what President Biden should do about the actions of a private citizen, you just expect him to do…something. Why do you think it’s my job to tell a public servant how to do their job, which involves dealing with potential or apparent conflicts of interest? I also want Biden not to start a war with Russia, do I need to provide a comprehensive diplomacy plan, or can I just expect him to… y’know… use the resources at his disposal to figure out how to do it? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/218 "2021-07-10T14:57:33Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > > But if you’re making a criticism of the President on relation to this, then that’s nonsense. > > Hunter’s failures have been sufficiently documented in this thread. I trust I don’t need to repeat them. Joe is not responsible for Hunter’s bad decisions. Hunter is an adult, after all. But most of us know that there are negative consequences to bad decisions and most of us don’t live a life of privilege in which our name recognition somehow always saves us from the worst of the consequences. And not just saves us but actually rewards us financially while having done little to nothing to deserve it. > > Now you may well ask what that has to do with Joe Biden. I may well ask what does it _not_ have to do with Joe Biden? Now, do I expect Joe to abandon his son? Of course not. A father loves his son. Who isn’t sympathetic to that instinct? But in the best possible light, Joe Biden has been over-indulgent and looked the other way. From a political instinct point of view, that has not worked well for him. So it would behoove Joe, while he’s president, to have a conversation with his son and encourage him to put higher considerations above his own personal financial gains. Perhaps Hunter is too selfish and inconsiderate to do that. Or, perhaps, Joe is too indulgent. Or, and I realize a Democratic president would never do this, perhaps Joe is tacitly complicit in Hunter’s shenanigans and is satisfied with making this the problem for the White House Office of Ethics. Now, does that make Biden worse than Trump? Does it make him a bad president? I’ve certainly not said or implied that. But plenty of people have tripped over themselves rushing to accuse those daring to be critical of this latest development of being \ Republican propaganda rubes. I disagree with nearly everything in this post; it is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/219 "2021-07-10T14:58:22Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I think Banksy sold some stuff on the street anonymously for like a hundred bucks one day sometime int he last 20 years; I heard about that. When your art sells for millions of dollars, you can afford to sell a piece or two for a hundred bucks for the added publicity and entertainment value of fucking with the art brokers. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2021, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/220 "2021-07-10T15:00:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I thought you were saying you believe Joe Biden should have a specific conversation with Hunter. That presumes that he hasn’t done this already. Why are you presuming that he hasn’t done this already? Because we’re all having _this_ fucking conversation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031.md?page=12)