# Hunter Biden artwork attracts ethics scrutiny
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031
**Category:** Politics & Elections
**Created:** [July 8, 2021, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031 "2021-07-08T21:55:46Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 3
### Author:  [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/41 "2021-07-09T14:18:17Z")
This is a glass half-full/half-empty situation. It’s on the edge where it _could_ be innocent or it _could_ be a way for someone to buy influence with the presidency. If it was Ivanka peddling her paintings during the previous administration I’m sure there’d be some howling here at The Dope.
The Bidens appear to be taking reasonable steps to ensure as much as possible that the sales are legit, something the Trumps never attempted. The world is messy and there’s no way to guarantee that nothing improper is happening.
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### Author:  [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/42 "2021-07-09T14:18:29Z")
To tack onto **gdave** ’s question, what job _should_ Hunter Biden be allowed to have? Is there any job which the GOP _won’t_ claim he doesn’t deserve?
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### Author:  [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/43 "2021-07-09T14:19:42Z")
A private citizen chooses to sell his artwork. The horror! I haven’t seen his work and have no idea how good he is, but if he can get someone to buy it bully for him. The idea that this buys access to Joe Biden or will cause him to owe a favor to them is crazy. At least Biden’s press secretary isn’t hawking his art on a television talk show.
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### Author:  [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/44 "2021-07-09T14:20:27Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#):
>
> You don’t think they could sit down and have a father-son chat where Joe says “look kid, I want to help you, but you’re screwing me (and possibly the future of the country) by trading on my name. Can you maybe stop doing that until I’m not President anymore?”
>
> I personally would _love_ to do that, but Joe Biden is in a much better position to be effective as a longsuffering father figure to Hunter.
Sure, Joe _could_ do that. How do you know he hasn’t?
Again, and I know I keep saying this, Hunter is _51 years old_. He gets to make his own financial arrangements. He doesn’t actually have to do what his father tells him.
And please correct me if I’m factually wrong here. I don’t think any adult child of a sitting U.S. President who wasn’t themselves a public official has ever put their earnings in escrow for the duration of their father’s presidency.
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### Author:  [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/45 "2021-07-09T14:21:52Z")
> [@gdave](#):
>
> “They” aren’t pulling anything. Hunter Biden is an adult. He’s _51 years old_ . If Hunter wants to sell his artwork, and if someone else wants to buy it, and if he goes the extra step of having blind sales - which is entirely voluntary and not any sort of legal or ethical requirement of a _private citizen_ - there’s not a damn thing his father can do about it. There’s nothing that even looks like an indication that _Joe_ Biden has done _anything_ wrong.
I feel like you’re missing the entire issue here. Yes, we all understand he’s a private citizen, you’ve said it a dozen times. The majority of us (at least those of us on the left) have no problem with him selling his art and collecting the cash.
Some people are suggesting that this is just a backdoor way to funnel money to the president. That is, I, a private citizen can buy a painting from Hunter, a private citizen for half a million dollars. Hunter gives the money to his dad and his dad does some political favors for me.
No one claimed it’s actually happening. It’s the definition of a manufactured scandal.
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#):
>
> You don’t think they could sit down and have a father-son chat where Joe says “look kid, I want to help you, but you’re screwing me (and possibly the future of the country) by trading on my name. Can you maybe stop doing that until I’m not President anymore?”
It would be interesting to see how much his art would be worth under a pseudonym.
> [@Lightnin](#):
>
> To tack onto **gdave** ’s question, what job _should_ Hunter Biden be allowed to have? Is there any job which the GOP _won’t_ claim he doesn’t deserve?
Are you familiar with how the Right operates? They put nearly every dem in a ‘can’t win’ position.
> [@gdave](#):
>
> Again, and I know I keep saying this, Hunter is _51 years old_ .
WE GET IT. The broken record thing isn’t changing any ones mind. It’s not the issue at hand.
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### Author:  [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/46 "2021-07-09T14:23:38Z")
> [@gdave](#):
>
> Hunter Biden is a private citizen
> [@gdave](#):
>
> Hunter Biden is _51 years old_ . He can make his own financial and business decisions
> [@gdave](#):
>
> Hunter Biden is a private citizen
> [@gdave](#):
>
> Hunter Biden is an adult. He’s _51 years old_
> [@gdave](#):
>
> Hunter is _51 years old_ .
Here ya go, all in one place so you can stop saying it over and over.
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### Author:  [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/47 "2021-07-09T14:27:57Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#):
>
> I feel like you’re missing the entire issue here. Yes, we all understand he’s a private citizen, you’ve said it a dozen times. The majority of us (at least those of us on the left) have no problem with him selling his art and collecting the cash.
> Some people are suggesting that this is just a backdoor way to funnel money to the president. That is, I, a private citizen can buy a painting from Hunter, a private citizen for half a million dollars. Hunter gives the money to his dad and his dad does some political favors for me.
> No one claimed it’s actually happening. It’s the definition of a manufactured scandal.
Then, what _is_ the issue? If the issue is that the GOP is manufacturing a scandal, then, ok, I agree, but…then why should Hunter Biden put his private earnings as a private citizen into escrow? If the issue is that this is a manufactured scandal, why not criticize those manufacturing the scandal rather than come up with “solutions” for Hunter Biden?
> [@Joey\_P](#):
>
> WE GET IT. The broken record thing isn’t changing any ones mind. It’s not the issue at hand.
Here’s the thing. I don’t think some people in this thread do get it. I keep repeating it because other posters keep repeating things like the comment I was replying to, that Joe Biden should sit Hunter down and have a talk with him, as if he were a wayward child, instead of…well, I don’t want to be accused of being a broken record again, so I won’t finish that sentence.
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### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/48 "2021-07-09T14:28:07Z")
> [@Lightnin](#):
>
> To tack onto **gdave** ’s question, what job _should_ Hunter Biden be allowed to have? Is there any job which the GOP _won’t_ claim he doesn’t deserve?
Yes, if Hunter has no qualifications or experience _whatsoever_ except sitting on boards of companies that Joe did favors for, I guess we’ll just have to let the poor guy coast by on pure nepotism forever.
I want to emphasize… Hunter Biden’s _entire adult life_ has been benefitting from nepotism. He has done _nothing_ under his own steam. He has _zero_ skills that don’t involve trading on his father’s name. Even his brief, ignominious naval career was awarded in a flurry of waivers and exceptions that, collectively, wouldn’t be available to anyone else.
I’m not a right-winger, but I feel like it’s a huge liability that the left can’t honestly confront what’s going on here. That’s bad. It’s morally bad and politically bad. Of course in 2020 we had to hold our nose and lump it to keep Trump from being president again… but the longer this goes on, the worse it’s going to get.
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### Author:  [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/49 "2021-07-09T14:29:20Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#):
>
> It would be interesting to see how much his art would be worth under a pseudonym.
See? Now THERE is a 24-karat solid gold idea. Wonder why the Bidens didn’t seem to think of it.
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### Author:  [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/50 "2021-07-09T14:30:09Z")
> [@gdave](#):
>
> Here’s the thing. I don’t think some people in this thread do get it. I keep repeating it because other posters keep repeating things like the comment I was replying to, that Joe Biden should sit Hunter down and have a talk with him, as if he were a wayward child, instead of…well, I don’t want to be accused of being a broken record again, so I won’t finish that sentence.
We, on the left, lost our shit loudly and repeatedly when the Trump family graft ring traded on their name (Ivanka, specifically). I don’t recall any of us saying that Ivanka is a 40 year old adult and her father can’t control what she does as a private citizen with regards to her financial affairs.
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### Author:  [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/51 "2021-07-09T14:32:07Z")
> [@DavidNRockies](#):
>
> Remember the Obama years ? Remember all the real/manufactured ethics scandals that plagued that administration ?
I sure do. Benghazi. IRS targeting conservative nonprofits. Operation Fast and Furious. But Her Emails. Solyndra. Kenya citizenship. Failure to Salute. Tan suit. [And on](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Obama_administration_controversies) [and on](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_impeach_Barack_Obama).
> [@Joey\_P](#):
>
> Are you familiar with how the Right operates? They put nearly every dem in a ‘can’t win’ position.
> [@War Games](#):
>
> A strange game.The only winning move is not to play.
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### Author:  [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/52 "2021-07-09T14:34:09Z")
> [@gdave](#):
>
> If the issue is that the GOP is manufacturing a scandal, then, ok, I agree, but…then why should Hunter Biden put his private earnings as a private citizen into escrow?
I don’t know how you can understand the first part and not the second part.
One more time. It would be a good faith attempt to avoid a manufactured scandal.
No one can force a sitting president to wear a suit jacket any time they’re in the oval office, but doing so avoids Fox and Friends from crapping all over them.
Just because a scandal is fake, doesn’t mean you may not want to take steps to avoid it.
As I understand it, Hunter is a private citizen, but maybe he’s also smart enough to think ‘if I sell a painting for a half million dollars, a buying might think I can call in a favor with dad or Fox might assume that’s what’s happening’.
I mean…this is how politics works.
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### Author:  [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/53 "2021-07-09T14:35:08Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> I sure do. Benghazi. IRS targeting conservative nonprofits. Operation Fast and Furious. But Her Emails. Solyndra. Kenya citizenship. Failure to Salute. Tan suit. [And on](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Obama_administration_controversies) [and on](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_impeach_Barack_Obama).
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MWxq80oze0)
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### Author:  [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/54 "2021-07-09T14:35:48Z")
I mostly agree with you but there is one difference: Ivanka had an official role in the administration, sitting in on meetings and such. That makes some of her money-making deals even more problematic.
But yeah, anybody who professes that there can’t be anything wrong with Hunter’s sale is obviously a Democrat.
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### Author:  [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/55 "2021-07-09T14:43:01Z")
Exactly. Of Trump’s children, only Tiffany and Barron were private citizens.
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### Author:  [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/56 "2021-07-09T14:43:05Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#):
>
> We, on the left, lost our shit loudly and repeatedly when the Trump family graft ring traded on their name (Ivanka, specifically). I don’t recall any of us saying that Ivanka is a 40 year old adult and her father can’t control what she does as a private citizen with regards to her financial affairs.
Ivanka Trump was a _public official_. She was Director of the Office of Economic Initiatives and Entrepreneurship, Senior Advisor to the President, and First Daughter (yes, that was her official title at one point). She was hawking her personal fashion line while she was also serving in an official capacity in the White House, and blurred those two roles. That’s a genuine conflict of interest and ethics violation. Since I’ve been accused of being a broken record, I won’t point out the obvious difference in the roles and positions between Ivanka Trump and Hunter Biden.
> [@Joey\_P](#):
>
> I don’t know how you can understand the first part and not the second part.
> One more time. It would be a good faith attempt to avoid a manufactured scandal.
>
> No one can force a sitting president to wear a suit jacket any time they’re in the oval office, but doing so avoids Fox and Friends from crapping all over them.
>
> Just because a scandal is fake, doesn’t mean you may not want to take steps to avoid it.
> As I understand it, Hunter is a private citizen, but maybe he’s also smart enough to think ‘if I sell a painting for a half million dollars, a buying might think I can call in a favor with dad or Fox might assume that’s what’s happening’.
> I mean…this is how politics works.
Ok, you’ve convinced me, Hunter Biden is a numpty. I disagree with you on what he should have done, but since you’ve made it _abundantly_ clear you think I’m a broken record, I don’t really see any point in trying to engage with you any further on this.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/57 "2021-07-09T14:43:28Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#):
>
> It would be a good faith attempt to avoid a manufactured scandal.
🙄
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### Author:  [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/58 "2021-07-09T14:58:01Z")
> [@gdave](#):
>
> I won’t point out the obvious difference in the roles and positions between Ivanka Trump and Hunter Biden.
No need. Because the focus should be on the similarities. Both stood and stand to profit from their proximity to the President. That is a problem. Granted that it’s a worse problem in the case of the Trump grift ring. But it requires one to be delusional to believe that Hunter Biden’s sudden rise in the art world isn’t directly related to who his father is.
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### Author:  [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/59 "2021-07-09T15:14:56Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#):
>
> I sure do. Benghazi. IRS targeting conservative nonprofits. Operation Fast and Furious. But Her Emails. Solyndra. Kenya citizenship. Failure to Salute. Tan suit. [And on](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Obama_administration_controversies) [and on](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efforts_to_impeach_Barack_Obama).
Okay. Fair point 😉
Solyndra, IIRC, is a good example of what an administration should _not_ do.
It’s been a while and I’m fuzzy on the details, but ISTR that the Obama administration cut corners in terms of due diligence and granted loan guarantees to a corporation with some creative accounting practices (, at best).
It’s taxpayer money and official policy at issue, so it _is_ materially different, but in terms of wisdom, judgment, and ethics, I think corners were cut on Solyndra that needn’t have been cut.
I don’t remember any Wilbur Ross or Ryan Zinke figures in Obama’s cabinet, but … we shouldn’t.
And, arguably, the tone that leads to corruption in administrations is set at the top (“the fish rots from the head”). 45’s tone was remarkable in its dissoluteness and cravenness.
IMHO, Biden set the right tone when he canned that press staffer, [**Ducklo**](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/white-house-tj-ducklo-threatens-to-destroy-female-reporter/), early on. It was clear, unambiguous, principle-centered, sent a message, and denied his opponents one unforced error to exploit.
It set a tone that this particular situation, IMHO, departs from – _despite_ the obvious factual differences.
Remember “Animal House ?” There was a great line that comes to mind, here:
> You better sit on that zoo fraternity of yours
Hunter may just be the ‘zoo fraternity’ on which Biden should have planned to sit … for four years.
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### Author:  [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)
#### Post date: [July 9, 2021, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunter-biden-artwork-attracts-ethics-scrutiny/946031/60 "2021-07-09T15:33:28Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#):
>
> You don’t think they could sit down and have a father-son chat where Joe says “look kid, I want to help you, but you’re screwing me (and possibly the future of the country) by trading on my name. Can you maybe stop doing that until I’m not President anymore?”
Assuming that this conversation has already taken place, because it very likely has in some form, now what?
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