# Hunting domestic cats **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 14, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366 "2005-04-14T22:49:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/21 "2005-04-16T04:01:01Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > And how would you characterize proponents of this measure? It seems that there are an awful lot of people who just hate cats, and are looking for any excuse to exterminate them. These are not people who give a damn about the environment or the precious birdies or rodents in their back yards. > > The only solution to this problem (if it is, indeed, a problem) is responsible pet ownership and neutering. The cats that are already out there have found their niche in the natural order of things, and should be respected for that. I characterize it as normal. Most proponnets of this do care about native wildlife. Be they hunters, birders, or general lovers of the outdoors. Just because a cat doesn’t have nuts, won’t mean that it won’t kill native wildlife like songbirds, often for pure thrill. The answer is a widespread extermination policy of loose cats combined with responsible ownership. If one must be an irresponsible owner with a disregard for native wildlife, then neutering would at least help keep the population down. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/22 "2005-04-16T04:13:29Z")
> [@Miss Purl McKnittington](#): > > My plea sounds like another irresponsible cat owner? With a strong anti-gun/anti-hunting bias as well? Fetish? I promise you that I do not require a cat to receive sexual gratification. Please, sir, do not put words in my mouth. You are making sweeping assumptions about my viewpoints. > > Sometimes cats escape _on accident_ and by the very nature of an accident, blame/responsibility cannot be reasonably assigned. What do you propose cat-owners do? Lock their cats in a special cat-safe? Get tiny kitty straitjackets? What to you is totally responsible pet-ownership? > > Braggadocio? No, not at all. It merely points out that eliminating the threat of feral cats is infeasible by the current proposal. Cats have been hunted in both Minnesota and South Dakota for quite some time, and they’re still a problem in those states, despite the _decades_ that those programs have been in place. This is not a reasonable solution. A more reasonable approach, for owner responsibility especially, would be cat licensure laws which require cats to be spayed/neutered unless they are breeding stock or the owner wishes to pay a substantially higher licensing fee. For feral cats, a trap and euthanasia program, allowing the issue to be addressed in urban areas (which have a much higher concentration of the animals than rural areas, where they can actually be hunted) would be a reasonable approach. The current proposal would be ineffective. There are better solutions. Fetish has non-sexual meanings such as: “An abnormally obsessive preoccupation or attachment; a fixation…” Adding trapping and euthanasia programs is a good, intelligent intelligent thing to do. Though maybe expensive for the state to undertake. There is nothing wrong with including hunting though. It is essentially another “euthanasia” type program. I can see including other tactics besides just hunting. But to not include hunting makes no sense except to appease people who have problems with it because they’re cats or a dislike of hunting in general. Responsible cat ownership would preclude a cat from being caught up in a trap and euthanize program, prey to a hunters bullet, or hefty penalty from the pound. ---
**Author:** ![aurelian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f4b2a3/32.png) [@aurelian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurelian)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/23 "2005-04-16T07:43:24Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > But to not include hunting makes no sense except to appease people who have problems with it because they’re cats or a dislike of hunting in general. Responsible cat ownership would preclude a cat from being caught up in a trap and euthanize program, prey to a hunters bullet, or hefty penalty from the pound. Because they’re cats? \ I said it in the Pit and I’ll say it here - I am the happy owner of a spoiled cat - she has never gone more outside than a screened-in porch; and the combination of her timidity and living on the third floor has meant she has never gotten farther than the staircase when she did escape from the apartment. It comes down to this - even if it is just a hypothetical, I’m not sure I’m comfortable with the idea that if my cat should escape, she could get shot. For me personally, this situation is impossible…but the question cannot distinguish between a feral cat and a cat that slipped out the front door; having your pet shot for a moment’s negligence seems overly harsh. Because my cat slips surreptitiously out the door, my three years of ‘responsible cat ownership’ goes out the window? Doesn’t seem fair. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 8:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/24 "2005-04-16T08:09:08Z")
I’ve had cats for many years. They are all very much indoor cats who are not allowed to venture outside at all. But every cat has gotten out at some point. There just arn’t enough security measures in the world to prevent it from ever happening. Some cats have a natural urge to go outside, and some just have the occasional curiousity. But cats are fast, quiet. and nearly impossible to catch. And once they get out, you can’t just call them back in. Cats are masters of diguise and deception. It usually involves laborious looking under cars and shrubs and a lot of waiting forlornly on the porch until they come back from whatever kitty hiding places they have found. And if someone shot my cat when that happened, you can bet I would break his fucking face. I may need some weapons because I’m a pretty small girl, but I WOULD make sure the bastard was much worse for the wear and I would serve my jail time proudly. I’ve lost too many animals I loved to assholes to let another one go by. You see, I have a few cat stories. One is Mongo, who showed up at our door one day. He just wanted love, but we already had a cat and tried to turn him away. He’d sneak in to the house as I left for school in the mornng. Eventually we took him in. It wasn’t until we took him to the vet years later we learned he had a bullet in him. Those fuckers. The other is Rusty, my cat when I was a severly depressed middle schooler. She disappeared after she slipped out of the house the night after we neutered her. And Spike, my kitten when I was a suicidally depressed high schooler. He disappeared after he slipped out the door one morning and I couldn’t find him before I had to go to school. In the same neighborhood Mongo was shot in. Way to teach a kid to love something, right? You want to hear the details of what this did to a depressed kid? For many people with depression, and many older people facing their own troubles, pets are the thing that keeps them hanging on. The theraputic value of having something warm and cuddly that needs you is proven. And when you are severly depressed, a cat may be as much maintanace as you can handle. I know my great-grandma’s cat kept her going for years and years. I know my cat was one of the few things that I cared about when I was depressed in college, and may have saved my life. But if these cats had been shot in the street, I am also sure there would be a few less depressed people hanging around this plane of existance. Go ahead, trap them. Send them to the pound. There the owners have a week to find their missing kitty (and we forlornly went to the pound every day for weeks when Spike disappeared) and at least have their chance to claim their loved ones back. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/25 "2005-04-16T12:47:58Z")
> [@aurelian](#): > > Because my cat slips surreptitiously out the door, my three years of ‘responsible cat ownership’ goes out the window? Doesn’t seem fair. The 2nd Amendment doesn’t say anything about the right to keep and bear cats being necessary to a peaceable republic. Although it oughta… 😃 ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/26 "2005-04-16T13:35:58Z")
What bothers me is, hey, if feral cats are a problem and this is the only way to deal with then fine. But if this were say, Germany, the government would make sure only the most well trained, professional and experienced hunters would be out doing it. Here in the States, you gotta figure every Yahoo with a shotgun, a pickup truck and a twelve pack of beer is going to be out shooting every cat, or every object that vaguely resembles a cat (which includes road signs) they can. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/27 "2005-04-16T13:40:50Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > Go ahead, trap them. Send them to the pound. There the owners have a week to find their missing kitty (and we forlornly went to the pound every day for weeks when Spike disappeared) and at least have their chance to claim their loved ones back. As I said in the Pit I have a cat problem in that they piss all over my vehicles and porch making quite a stench. It isn’t the law that’s kept me from getting rid of them but a fear that someone else might lose a beloved pet. I’ve owned cats and dogs so I know how attached we can get to them. I don’t believe cats in urban areas will be endangered since discharging a firearm there would still be illegal. Spring is here and it won’t be to long before those tom cats start spraying my car and porch. I’ll be honest, I’m not ever going to go through the trouble of trapping them and taking them to a shelter. I don’t remember any one of them having collars. Since I live in a rural area I can pretty much make them disappear at any time without anyone knowing. I’m just going to start treating them like I would a gopher, mouse, or any other pest. > [@aurelian](#): > > Because my cat slips surreptitiously out the door, my three years of ‘responsible cat ownership’ goes out the window? Doesn’t seem fair. I agree, it’s unfair to label you as an irresponsible owner simply because the cat happens to slip out from time to time. People can be responsible and still make errors or have accidents. Still, you are responsible if your cat gets free. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/28 "2005-04-16T13:46:23Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > What bothers me is, hey, if feral cats are a problem and this is the only way to deal with then fine. But if this were say, Germany, the government would make sure only the most well trained, professional and experienced hunters would be out doing it. > > Here in the States, you gotta figure every Yahoo with a shotgun, a pickup truck and a twelve pack of beer is going to be out shooting every cat, or every object that vaguely resembles a cat (which includes road signs) they can. :o I’m sorry, it’s just that this tired old arguement is pretty boring. Everyone that hunts is a fucking redneck hillbilly who gets jacked up on ‘shine before heading out for a fun day of shootin’ huggable critters for shits and giggles. Why would I have to figure that every yahoo is going to even want to shoot at cats? I suppose it’d be interesting to implement such a policy within city limits. I hear in New Orleans they get members of the police department to go out at night and shoot nutria with silenced .22 rifles. Why bother with such a policy in rural areas where people are permitted to discharge firearms? Marc ---
**Author:** ![LH75](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lh75/32/4438_2.png) [@LH75](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LH75)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/29 "2005-04-16T13:57:39Z")
while i do not live in wisconsin, and my cat is a strictly indoor cat, one shot from one of my neighbors at my cat (should he venture outside) and the barking dog problem in my neighborhood would be taken care of by the end of the week. ---
**Author:** ![aurelian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f4b2a3/32.png) [@aurelian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurelian)\ **Post date:** [April 16, 2005, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/30 "2005-04-16T19:48:23Z")
I just heard a story about Question 62 in Wisconsin on the local Air America affiliate (yeah, I know - not an unbiased source - but it seems impossible to find an objective voice in this whole argument) and they mentioned a couple interesting points: -that Stan Templey, the professor whose work is cited in support of Q62, has never had that work published or peer-reviewed, and it was more of an estimation than a survey. -that he is also a founding member of a bird advocacy group (it strikes me as odd to think of a bird lobby, but it would bring into question his objectivity if true); and that this group (I forget the name) has been involved in similar battles in other states, like Ohio. -estimates on feral populations in WI range from 400,000 to 7,000,000 - quite a range. Anybody have more information on Temple and the legitimacy of his studies? ---
**Author:** ![lekatt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lekatt/32/7269_2.png) [@lekatt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lekatt)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2005, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/31 "2005-04-17T20:49:18Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > Not much of a difference. Both feral and free domestic cats are nuisances that prey on native wildlife. Letting a cat loose is irresponsible unless someone breaks in and “catnaps” it. It’s under your care, and you shouldn’t have let it happen. I know. I’ve had a dog shot because I was not responsible enough to have secured properly. Your plea sounds like another irresponsible owner - apathy about wildlife over predation - bizzare fetish bit. Probably with a strong anti-gun / anit-hunting bias as well. > > Your braggadocio about the breeding prowess of cats really points out that State Wildlife officials should start an official extermination program for the pests. IN our city of about 350.000 we have six agencies that live trap stray cats, neuter them and try to find a home for them. They are all no kill agencies. Any politician that makes an anti-cat or dog law never gets reelected. It is the kiss of death to polical careers. People love their animals almost as much as their kids. I won’t try to explain why they do this to you, you would never understand. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2005, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/32 "2005-04-17T23:04:38Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > People love their animals almost as much as their kids. I won’t try to explain why they do this to you, you would never understand. Here’s what I understand: I am an animal lover and have always had lots of pets. I used to work as a veterinary tech. I believe that people who love their pets (most of which do not have the skills necessary to survive in the wild anymore) usually agree that they should be protected from illness, injury and death, and one way to do that is to keep them from roaming. I think wildlife has the right to be protected from domestic animals that are not native to this environment. Cats do not “need” to kill birds, lizards, and everything else that moves to be “happy.” I even think other people have the right to have their own pets and property protected from others’ free-roaming housepets. So what, exactly, is it that I don’t understand? (other than why some people dress up their pets in human clothing?) ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/33 "2005-04-17T23:10:02Z")
EvenSven: > [@](#): > > I’ve lost too many animals I loved to assholes to let another one go by. Hmm. If this has happened multiple times to you, you might wanna look closer at what you possibly could be doing wrong. I even grew up in the same town you live in, and I can’t imagine this would be a constant problem. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/34 "2005-04-18T01:05:54Z")
> [@lekatt](#): > > IN our city of about 350.000 we have six agencies that live trap stray cats, neuter them and try to find a home for them. They are all no kill agencies. Any politician that makes an anti-cat or dog law never gets reelected. It is the kiss of death to polical careers. People love their animals almost as much as their kids. I won’t try to explain why they do this to you, you would never understand. Well, people that love their pets like their own human children have mental problems and probably should be committed. Laws catering to the insane aren’t good laws. Folks against this simply are not right in the head. BTW, no kill shelters are waste of taxpayers money. I feel sorry for the taxpayers in your city unless they are funded strictly by donations. ---
**Author:** ![Unregistered\_Bull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3da27b/32.png) [@Unregistered\_Bull](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unregistered_Bull)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2005, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/35 "2005-04-18T01:08:00Z")
> [@Unregistered Bull](#): > > Well, people that love their pets like their own human children have mental problems and probably should be committed. Laws catering to the insane aren’t good laws. Folks against this simply are not right in the head. > > BTW, no kill shelters are waste of taxpayers money. I feel sorry for the taxpayers in your city unless they are funded strictly by donations. “this” being against including hunting as a mean of controlling the feral cat problem. ---
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2005, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/36 "2005-04-18T01:10:03Z")
They was giving me ten thousand watts a day, and you know… I’m hot to trot! The next woman takes me out is going to light up like a pinball machine, and pay off in silver dollars! ---
**Author:** ![Scarface\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Scarface\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarface_Z)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2005, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/37 "2005-04-18T02:17:41Z")
First, it seems to me the idea of “my cat just ran out the front door and got shot” is baseless. Hunting is forbidden within close proximities of houses (the actual distance varies with state and weapon). Also, if your cat has a collar it should be safe. If your cat doesn’t have a “Noli me tangere, for Caesar’s I am,” on that’s your problem. If your cat gets out and doesn’t have a collar, it may get shot. On the other hand, if my canary or baby rabbits get out they may get eaten by your cat, deal with it. That said, I don’t think this law is going to have any effect at all. The main problem with feral cats (I would surmise) would be in residential, urban, or suburban areas. These areas are not permissible hunting grounds. If you are going to tackle the cat problem you need to hit them where they are concentrated. In rural areas, more appropriate for hunting, the cat population is much thinner. Back in the day, my dad shot every stray cat he saw on our property. Granted, we were in the middle of a rabies epidemic and me and my siblings were very young. Slight diversion: what if they mandated that the cats be given to soup kitchens and the fur was used to clothe the homeless? ---
**Author:** ![justwannano](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7ab992/32.png) [@justwannano](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justwannano)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2005, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/38 "2005-04-18T02:31:47Z")
> [@JillGat](#): > > I think wildlife has the right to be protected from domestic animals that are not native to this environment. Cats do not “need” to kill birds, lizards, and everything else that moves to be “happy.” > > I As I look out my window I the greatest number of birds I see are sparrows. The amazing thing about the sparrow is they aren’t a native American species. Hmmm back to the drawing board. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2005, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/39 "2005-04-18T02:51:32Z")
Sparrow - like starlings, another non-native, introduced species - are legal to kill as varmints in most places. That’s part of the basis for the proposed law about cats. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [April 18, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366/40 "2005-04-18T03:05:23Z")
> [@justwannano](#): > > As I look out my window I the greatest number of birds I see are sparrows. > > The amazing thing about the sparrow is they aren’t a native American species. > > Hmmm back to the drawing board. If sparrows are an invasive species, and they are what you are seeing the most of, I’d say they are already putting a lot of pressure on native wild birds. Due to their numbers, it’s probably safe to say they’ve adapted to domestic & feral cat predation, which just puts even more pressure on wild native birds that haven’t, or can’t adapt as well. Could you train your cat to only hunt sparrows? When I lived in Maryland, my sister-in-law’s cat would regularly bring home bloody cardinal heads. During inclement weather when the cardinals would flock to the bird feeder, that cat could bring home two or three cardinal heads per day. I don’t remember if it ever brought home sparrow heads. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hunting-domestic-cats/299366.md?page=3)