# Hydrogen Cell Technology - Bunk? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 9, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hydrogen-cell-technology-bunk/448735 "2008-05-09T19:59:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hydrogen-cell-technology-bunk/448735/1 "2008-05-09T19:59:30Z")
Or is this actually a viable fuel-saving system? [Product info](http://www.hydro4000.com/default.htm). Does anyone have reliable information on the effectiveness of this sort of device? ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hydrogen-cell-technology-bunk/448735/2 "2008-05-09T20:10:55Z")
I did another search on SDMB for this found a lot of opinion, but not much in the way of fact. Snopes is no help, nor is Wiki. ---
**Author:** ![gazpacho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6f9a4e/32.png) [@gazpacho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gazpacho)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hydrogen-cell-technology-bunk/448735/3 "2008-05-09T20:40:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Your internal combustion engine’s efficiency will be dramatically improved with the introduction of HYDROGEN gas. The engine alternator keeps turning whether or not the engine and battery use all of the electricity it produces. Energy is wasted constantly turning the alternator that is captured to power the HYDRO-4000 which, in turn, produces HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN GASES used to improve combustion. The way modern engines work, powering the HYDRO-4000 is basically free. This is bunk. If the alternator has a load it is harder to turn so the energy to run the HYDRO-4000 is not free. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hydrogen-cell-technology-bunk/448735/4 "2008-05-09T21:42:27Z")
In case anyone wandering through is wondering, the linked site has nothing to do with standard [hydrogen fuel cells](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_cell), which are still experimental but have a chance of becoming a working technology. I haven’t heard anything about this technology being developed; they’re co-opting the term hydrogen fuel cell, which has been in the news; and their wording is very similar to other schemes, such a the UV light that you attach to your washing machine to energize the water so that you never need to use soap again. So I’m very leery. They’re not showing their science, just some scientific-sounding buzzwords. I wouldn’t risk my money. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hydrogen-cell-technology-bunk/448735/5 "2008-05-09T22:07:52Z")
[QUOTE=gazpacho] This is bunk. If the alternator has a load it is harder to turn so the energy to run the HYDRO-4000 is not free. [/QUOTE] I agree. Either the promoter doesn’t know how an alternator works, or he is banking on the public not knowing. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 9, 2008, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hydrogen-cell-technology-bunk/448735/6 "2008-05-09T23:04:08Z")
[Right here](http://www.hydro4000.com/technology.htm) > [@The Hydro400](#): > > Our HYDRO-4000 use a process known as electrolysis to produce Brown’s Gas as described below. **Any** time you see the phrase “Brown’s Gas” it’s a fraud. Pure and simple. The **only** people who use that phrase are con artists. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hydrogen-cell-technology-bunk/448735/7 "2008-05-10T01:49:01Z")
Yes, it is an amazing and revolutionary innovation in the chemical thermodynamics of internal combustion which has somehow not been published in any peer-reviewed journal ever. Either that, or it’s like those gas mileage-amplifying magnets that you’re supposed to stick on top of your carborator, then scruitinize gas mileage calculations for months to find a minimal improvement. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hydrogen-cell-technology-bunk/448735/8 "2008-05-10T02:45:51Z")
[QUOTE=Tuckerfan] [Right here](http://www.hydro4000.com/technology.htm) **Any** time you see the phrase “Brown’s Gas” it’s a fraud. Pure and simple. The **only** people who use that phrase are con artists. [/QUOTE] Well, this seems to be more opinion without supporting cites. Can you link to something specific that will help answer the question? ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hydrogen-cell-technology-bunk/448735/9 "2008-05-10T02:51:52Z")
[QUOTE=Chefguy] I did another search on SDMB for this found a lot of opinion, but not much in the way of fact. Snopes is no help, nor is Wiki. [/QUOTE] Factually, a “20%- 60% reduction in fuel consumption” is extremely unlikely. An extraordinary claim, if you will. An extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence. This company gives no evidence and no credible explanation of how their device works. In addition, it’s interesting that your [Green Machine Solutions](http://www.hydro4000.com/default.htm), located in Jupiter Florida, has pretty much exactly the same website as [National Vapor Industries](http://www.nationalvapor.com/index.htm), located in Livermore California. Right down to the testimonials (with product names changed). Sound like an above-board outfit to you? Earlier threads: [“Water Powered” cars](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=465525) (4/08) [Hydrogen power in a car, no fuel cell](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=262509) (6/04) [Isn’t this a perpetual motion machine?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=345020) (11/05) [Motors running on water](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=377280) (6/06) [Please Settle the Daniel Dingle Debate](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=391171) (10/06) [Any validity to this? (H2O–\>HHO power)](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=396640) (11/06) [Cheap hydrogen generation… is this bunk?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=438819) (10/07) ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hydrogen-cell-technology-bunk/448735/10 "2008-05-10T02:56:36Z")
[QUOTE=Chefguy] Well, this seems to be more opinion without supporting cites. Can you link to something specific that will help answer the question? [/QUOTE] Well, **Una** did a rather detailed post about it here once, but I can’t seem to find it at the moment. Will you settle for [Wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown's_Gas) > [@](#): > > The claimed applications of HHO are practically indistinguishable from the original claims of Yull Brown. The HHO trademark is associated with an unproven state of matter called magnegases, and a discredited theory about magnecules,[12] which is the basis for a number of fraudulent claims, and third party water-fuelled car scam attempts. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hydrogen-cell-technology-bunk/448735/11 "2008-05-10T03:07:09Z")
While Snopes and Wiki are in the dark, our dear friends at Mythbusters covered it in their [season three finale](http://www.tvsquad.com/2006/05/12/mythbusters-exploding-pants-finale/) where they covered the great gas conspiracy. Basically, yes, it will produce hydrogen gas, but nowhere near the quantity needed to run a vehicle. Hooking the car up to a tank of pressurized hydrogen worked quite well though. Personally I suspect that further research would reveal that the energy needed to produce enough hydrogen to power the car would exceed the energy produced by whatever alternator/generator mechanism incorporated to make the electricity. Well past the point of diminishing returns. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2008, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hydrogen-cell-technology-bunk/448735/12 "2008-05-10T03:10:13Z")
[QUOTE=zut] In addition, it’s interesting that your [Green Machine Solutions](http://www.hydro4000.com/default.htm), located in Jupiter Florida, has pretty much exactly the same website as [National Vapor Industries](http://www.nationalvapor.com/index.htm), located in Livermore California. Right down to the testimonials (with product names changed). Sound like an above-board outfit to you? [/QUOTE] Hey, the colored fonts of different sizes and all the exclamation points convinced me right off! I wonder if CA ran them out of the state and they took up residence in FL. I want to make clear that I’m not in the least convinced that this “technology” is anything but a scam, but there has been some recent hype on the local news about it and I would like to send the editor a letter that takes him to task for airing such a story. In particular, they quoted [this story](http://www.nbcactionnews.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=7e1ac9a5-ad48-4b0c-a54e-f86796458d93), complete with video (which may be on YouTube).