# Hypnagogia = Voices of the Dead?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [June 24, 2009, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818 "2009-06-24T10:39:29Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/1 "2009-06-24T10:39:29Z")
Okay, time for another paranormal-related thread. (Heh, these are always so much fun…)
Could [auditory hypnagogia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia) be actual voices from the recently deceased? I know, science believes it’s just your own brain talking to yourself, but…do we really know for sure? After all, science is changing all the time.
I love hearing voices. At least, those dreamy-not-really-awake voices. They say weird and random things. And I like to pretend they’re actual spirits sometimes, just for fun. But one voice I heard right now kinda weirded me out – a soft, bewildered woman’s voice right next to my ear said: _“What happened…there’s Nothing!”_ I mean…think about it. :eek:
(Please no snide remarks about how spirits/voices don’t exist…let’s keep an open mind here, people.)
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### Author:  [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/2 "2009-06-24T12:19:21Z")
> [@KGS](#):
>
> (Please no snide remarks about how spirits/voices don’t exist…let’s keep an open mind here, people.)
Not much of a debate when you’ve eliminated one side, is it? :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/3 "2009-06-24T12:46:09Z")
> [@KGS](#):
>
> Could [auditory hypnagogia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia) be actual voices from the recently deceased?
No. But just for shits and giggles, would you care to explain how such a thing might be possible?
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### Author:  [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/4 "2009-06-24T12:50:26Z")
I don’t hear voices in my head (other than other people who talk aruond me and my own personal narrative, I guess).
Are you asking:
Let’s assume for a moment that people who hear voices in their head don’t have some sort of mental issue such as schizophrenia. So far, there is no experiment that can verify that they are “hearing” voices in some sense, but perhaps one day there will be one. Let’s further assume that the experiment confirms that these voices are not being generated inside that person’s head by some quirk of their brain chemistry or something, rather the voices are coming from some external undetermined source.
Could that source be spirits or the recently deceased?
Sure, I suppose.
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### Author:  [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/5 "2009-06-24T12:59:23Z")
> [@KGS](#):
>
> But one voice I heard right now kinda weirded me out – a soft, bewildered woman’s voice right next to my ear said: _“What happened…there’s Nothing!”_ I mean…think about it. :eek:
In order for a reasonable person to consider the possibility that this is more than your mind playing tricks on you, it would have to have done something that your imagination could not. For instance, if the voice had told you something you didn’t know, but that could be verified, and you determined that it was in fact true, _then_ you would have an excuse to believe it was real. Hearing a voice saying something mundane and unverifiable is not convincing.
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### Author:  [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/6 "2009-06-24T13:05:36Z")
Such voices are generally considered to be subvocal speech acts of the person who hears them, and thus, manoeuvres that hinder subvocalisation can cause them to go away ([cite](http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/144/2/222)) – next time you hear them, try something like opening your mouth; if they stop, they likely originate in your own head (I suppose it’s possible that the ghosts are just too appalled at your lack of decency to continue talking, as well). The converse isn’t true – they can still be just in your head even if they continue.
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### Author:  [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/7 "2009-06-24T13:22:36Z")
Science is really the study of the 3(+t) dimensional world which our 5 senses can detect. It uses physical objects in it to study it. When something like this is happening it looks really really hard at the 3 physical dimensions, but the cause is often in other spiritual dimensions. Science’s very nature will take one’s focus off of the true cause and focus on something that is not the cause.
Whatever those voices are, looking to any science will not solve the problem, though science can make you hide the problem from yourself. God has allowed you to hear them so there is a reason you are hearing those voices, I would suggest seeking Him for answers.
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### Author:  [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/8 "2009-06-24T13:30:08Z")
If by “Him” you are refering to a Dr. Yoshi Him, noted psychiatrist, then I agree.
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### Author:  [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/9 "2009-06-24T13:32:44Z")
> [@kanicbird](#):
>
> Whatever those voices are, looking to any science will not solve the problem, though science can make you hide the problem from yourself.
Who said it was a problem?
> [@](#):
>
> God has allowed you to hear them so there is a reason you are hearing those voices, I would suggest seeking Him for answers.
Why would you conclude that god is responsible for this phenomenon?
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### Author:  [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/10 "2009-06-24T13:51:38Z")
> [@Grumman](#):
>
> For instance, if the voice had told you something you didn’t know, but that could be verified, and you determined that it was in fact true, _then_ you would have an excuse to believe it was real.
Well, I’ll confess, my ulterior motive for this thread was in case the voice was a premonition, or a moment of clairaudience. Probably not, but you never know…
> [@kanicbird](#):
>
> God has allowed you to hear them so there is a reason you are hearing those voices, I would suggest seeking Him for answers.
Oh dear… :rolleyes:
If there is a God, frankly, He deserves a shiv between the eyes. Unfortunately, God is merely imaginary, so I can’t kill Him. No answers can be found by worshipping God – the concept of worship in its entirety is pointless and stupid (unless you want to connect with other stupid people on a spiritual level, in which case, knock yourself out.)
Only faith in yourself and your place in The Universe count for jack.
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### Author:  [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/11 "2009-06-24T13:59:48Z")
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#):
>
> Such voices are generally considered to be subvocal speech acts of the person who hears them, and thus, manoeuvres that hinder subvocalisation can cause them to go away ([cite](http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/144/2/222))
Your link is for schizophrenic hallucinations, not hypnagogia. I’ve never experienced “schizo” voices in my life (except while on LSD) so I have no experience in that matter. (Perhaps **AHunter3** can chime in?)
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/12 "2009-06-24T14:22:54Z")
Well, the recently deceased can make gastrointestinal tract noises, I have found.
On the other hand, if you’re doing an autopsy and you hear a voice saying “Not so fast”, it’s time to step back and reappraise things.
psst…KGS…there’s no food here…get me a cheeseburger…
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### Author:  [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/13 "2009-06-24T14:30:16Z")
> [@Grumman](#):
>
> In order for a reasonable person to consider the possibility that this is more than your mind playing tricks on you, it would have to have done something that your imagination could not. For instance, if the voice had told you something you didn’t know, but that could be verified, and you determined that it was in fact true, _then_ you would have an excuse to believe it was real. Hearing a voice saying something mundane and unverifiable is not convincing.
Bingo.
If they are voices of the dead…it could be soooo easy to prove.
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### Author:  [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/14 "2009-06-24T14:39:19Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#):
>
> If they are voices of the dead…it could be soooo easy to prove.
How so?
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### Author:  [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/15 "2009-06-24T14:45:18Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#):
>
> Bingo.
>
> If they are voices of the dead…it could be soooo easy to prove.
Hmm, but the recently deceased need not be aware of KGS. Their comments would indeed be mundane.
If you just died wouldn’t you be wondering what the f\* was happening? I doubt you would immediatly shout stuff like “to anyone who can hear me, my favourite colour is BLUE, go check!”
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### Author:  [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/16 "2009-06-24T14:47:48Z")
> [@KGS](#):
>
> Your link is for schizophrenic hallucinations, not hypnagogia. I’ve never experienced “schizo” voices in my life (except while on LSD) so I have no experience in that matter. (Perhaps **AHunter3** can chime in?)
Actually, according to the abstract, they also tested people under hypnotic suggestion, who showed the same effect, so I don’t think the origin of the voices matters much. And if they’re in your head, you will most likely subvocalize while ‘hearing’ them – you do it when you read, too, or think to yourself. So give it a try, it could be instructive!
You could also have the guys at NASA hook up some electrodes to your [throat](http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2004/mar/HQ_04093_subvocal_speech.html), I hear they’ve gotten pretty good at recovering the actual words that are spoken in your head that way.
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### Author:  [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/17 "2009-06-24T15:13:07Z")
> [@KGS](#):
>
> Could [auditory hypnagogia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia) be actual voices from the recently deceased? I know, science believes it’s just your own brain talking to yourself, but…do we really know for sure? After all, science is changing all the time.
Could it actually be microchips implanted in your skull to monitor your thoughts? Do we really know for sure? After all, science is changing all the time.
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### Author:  [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/18 "2009-06-24T15:17:26Z")
> [@Latro](#):
>
> Hmm, but the recently deceased need not be aware of KGS. Their comments would indeed be mundane.
I’ve communicated with the dead at least once, maybe twice. So spirits & ghosts do notice me, when I notice them. There is precedence for that.
As for the voice I heard last night…maybe it was just my mind being creative. Or maybe it really was a wandering spirit, who woke up in the darkness and could only see whatever part of me they see when I listen to the spirits. It’s the tone of the voice that creeped me out…my “voices” (hypnagogic voices, mind you) are always playful, babbling, and often say nice things. This voice sounded shocked, desperate.
But then again, I’ve been in a creative mood lately, so maybe my brain was just having a little fun? :dubious:
> [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](#):
>
> Actually, according to the abstract, they also tested people under hypnotic suggestion, who showed the same effect
I said hypnogogic, not hypnotic. Do you even know what hypnogogia is???
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### Author:  [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/19 "2009-06-24T15:25:45Z")
So, how did that communication go?
Ah, well it’s probably just the brain. Hypnagogia, all in all, is just drifting off, innit?
I once hypnogoged a Bouvier that lunged at me, it seemed very real.
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### Author:  [@Turek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turek)
#### Post date: [June 24, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/20 "2009-06-24T15:28:44Z")
> [@KGS](#):
>
> I’ve communicated with the dead at least once, maybe twice. So spirits & ghosts do notice me, when I notice them. There is precedence for that.
A delusion is not a precedent.
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