# Hypnagogia = Voices of the Dead? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 24, 2009, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818 "2009-06-24T10:39:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lanzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/74df32/32.png) [@Lanzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lanzy)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/21 "2009-06-24T15:34:20Z")
Yeah, its probably ghosts stuck in your head. Happens all the time, take a cold shower and that usually chases them away. We haven’t defined ghosts yet have we? ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/22 "2009-06-24T15:36:59Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > So, how did that communication go? It was a touch on the shoulder, a glimpse of her face, and a sudden sense of soothing, inner peace, which I really needed at the time because the police still hadn’t found the driver who killed her. (Actually, I didn’t need it _that_ much – death doesn’t upset me nearly as much as most people – but it helped, definitely.) For certain, it didn’t resemble hypnagogia AT ALL…in fact, it was unlike any “woo” experience I’ve ever felt in my life. And who knows if it’s real or not? Who knows what reality is, anyway? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/23 "2009-06-24T15:38:08Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > I’ve communicated with the dead at least once, maybe twice. So spirits & ghosts do notice me, when I notice them. There is precedence for that. What you took for a ghost was later revealed to be Old Man Smithers. And he would’ve gotten away with it, if it weren’t for us meddling skeptics. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/24 "2009-06-24T15:42:49Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Oh dear… :rolleyes: > > If there is a God, frankly, He deserves a shiv between the eyes. Unfortunately, God is merely imaginary, so I can’t kill Him. No answers can be found by worshipping God – the concept of worship in its entirety is pointless and stupid (unless you want to connect with other stupid people on a spiritual level, in which case, knock yourself out.) > > Only faith in yourself and your place in The Universe count for jack. That’s really cute the way you can dismiss a higher being so easily yet honestly believe you can hear the dead talking. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/25 "2009-06-24T15:46:13Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > (Please no snide remarks about how spirits/voices don’t exist…let’s keep an open mind here, people.) :rolleyes: Oh please. An “open mind” doesn’t have to accept every hairbrained idea that comes along. ---
**Author:** ![Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/half_man_half_wit/32/21766_2.png) [@Half\_Man\_Half\_Wit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Half_Man_Half_Wit)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/26 "2009-06-24T15:48:22Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > I said hypnogogic, not hypnotic. Do you even know what hypnogogia is??? Yes, I do know what hypnagogia is, and it’s very akin to hypnosis as far as the hallucinations are concerned. However, the point is that voices in your head pretty much are voices in your head when it comes to subvocalizing their speech, regardless of the source. I get the sneaking feeling that maybe you’re not really interested in finding out if you might be the source of the voices you hear… :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/27 "2009-06-24T15:48:56Z")
It’s not the dead speaking to you. It’s aliens, and it means you’re going to be abducted shortly. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/28 "2009-06-24T16:09:08Z")
Why do you think it’s the dead speaking to you? It could be: [ul] [li]God[/li][li]Satan[/li][li]Angels[/li][li]Aliens[/li][li]Government agents[/li][li]Psychics[/li][/ul] There are a number of potential sources of these voices. How did you eliminate the other alternatives? ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/29 "2009-06-24T16:13:04Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > That’s really cute the way you can dismiss a higher being so easily yet honestly believe you can hear the dead talking. The concept of “God” as an anthropomorphic higher power is merely a product of human imagination. If “God” is everywhere, and so clearly described in the Holy Bible, why did He not reveal himself to other religious groups? Why only the Jews and the Christians? That’s a rather mean God, allowing so many Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, etc. to live, suffer and die with no possible hope for salvation. The only definition of “God” in that context is a PSYCHOPATH, plain and simple. But that’s okay – if God’s a psychopath, then he’s also a liar. Which means, there must exist a power BEYOND God. Discover that power, and bind yourself to _that_ power’s will, and the God Delusion can no longer torment you. Trust me, it works…but it _does_ require some effort to achieve. > [@glee](#): > > It’s aliens, and it means you’re going to be abducted shortly. Hehehe…you may be much more correct than you know, metaphorically speaking. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/30 "2009-06-24T16:16:59Z")
**@The Hamster King:** (my quote function is not working) Obviously it’s ghosts. Didn’t you read **KGS** ’s posts above? As he/she points out, the notion that God or angels or Zeta Reticulans even exist is just asinine. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/31 "2009-06-24T16:21:12Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Could [auditory hypnagogia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia) be actual voices from the recently deceased? I know, science believes it’s just your own brain talking to yourself, but…do we really know for sure? After all, science is changing all the time. Well, it \* could \*, but only in the same way that gravity could be caused by invisible little pixies yanking on atoms. This is mostly an application of Occam’s razor. On one hand, we have the brain that is known to produce occasional hallucinations, both visual and auditory. This includes standard dreaming and pathological circumstances such as schizophrenia. So we know that both the normal and abnormal functionings of the brain can produce very compelling experiences of having heard voices. Further, it’s not particularly difficult to come up with some physical models for how the brain could produce these hallucinations – the brain is essentially an information processing mechanism and we certainly don’t find it strange when an information processing device such as a computer or an iPod produces sounds or images. So in the space between sleeping and waking when the conscious mind is trying to reboot, as it were, it’s very easy to see how spurious inputs could be generated and interpreted. On the other hand, there are no strong reasons to think that you’re actually hearing voices of the dead. As has already been noted, the voices aren’t telling you anything you don’t already know. And they seem to be in languages you know, which given the numbers of recent dead who \* don’t \* speak your language, sounds fairly unlikely. Finally, there’s no physical model that would explain how the dead could speak or how you could hear them. So yeah, you can generate any hypotheses you want, but without evidence, without a model based in known phenomenon, you’re not doing science and you shouldn’t really expect to be taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/32 "2009-06-24T16:49:47Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > The concept of “God” as an anthropomorphic higher power is merely a product of human imagination. If “God” is everywhere, and so clearly described in the Holy Bible, why did He not reveal himself to other religious groups? Why only the Jews and the Christians? That’s a rather mean God, allowing so many Hindus, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, etc. to live, suffer and die with no possible hope for salvation. The only definition of “God” in that context is a PSYCHOPATH, plain and simple. > > But that’s okay – if God’s a psychopath, then he’s also a liar. Which means, there must exist a power BEYOND God. Discover that power, and bind yourself to _that_ power’s will, and the God Delusion can no longer torment you. Trust me, it works…but it _does_ require some effort to achieve. Hehehe…You should really see a shrink about your religion anger issues…Oh, and maybe the voices in your head too. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/33 "2009-06-24T16:54:30Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Hehehe…You should really see a shrink about your religion anger issues…Oh, and maybe the voices in your head too. Oh, **KGS** ’s anger/disdain towards God is reasonable. But it’s clear that **KGS** is unwilling to be as critical of equally irrational non-god supernatural claims. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/34 "2009-06-24T17:00:33Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Oh, **KGS** ’s anger/disdain towards God is reasonable. But it’s clear that **KGS** is unwilling to be as critical of equally irrational non-god supernatural claims. Why be angry about something you don’t believe in? Just more evidence that a shrink should be involved. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/35 "2009-06-24T17:06:11Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > But it’s clear that **KGS** is unwilling to be as critical of equally irrational non-god supernatural claims. No, I’m willing to be open-minded about _possibilities_, rather than dismissing any theory that can’t be tested and repeated in a scientific method experiment. Not all sciences depend on the scientific method, by the way – paleontology, anthropology, archaeology, etc. Even the Theory of Evolution is inherently non-falsifiable, but all scientists agree that evolution IS a valid science. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/36 "2009-06-24T17:11:15Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Why be angry about something you don’t believe in? Because I’ve seen what the God Delusion does to people. How believers justify their impulses for abuse, rape, torture, murder, genocide, destruction of the environment, and just plain being an asshole, because if you believe in the Christian God, you are forgiven for any heinous crime you wish to commit. Heck, just look at any abortion doctor-killer or Enron CEO or any other criminal who smiles and tells the TV cameras that God will forgive them, even reward them, for their crimes against humanity and the economy. ---
**Author:** ![yorick73](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/b5a626/32.png) [@yorick73](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yorick73)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/37 "2009-06-24T17:16:04Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Because I’ve seen what the God Delusion does to people. How believers justify their impulses for abuse, rape, torture, murder, genocide, destruction of the environment, and just plain being an asshole, because if you believe in the Christian God, you are forgiven for any heinous crime you wish to commit. Heck, just look at any abortion doctor-killer or Enron CEO or any other criminal who smiles and tells the TV cameras that God will forgive them, even reward them, for their crimes against humanity and the economy. Ooh…sorry to send you off on a rant. That question was for Der Trihs. One thing I’ve learned is to NOT ask the disturbed questions that may upset them. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/38 "2009-06-24T17:27:12Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Even the Theory of Evolution is inherently non-falsifiable, but all scientists agree that evolution IS a valid science. Nonsense. There are many possible observations that would falsify evolution. Again, I’ll ask. Why do you believe that the voices you hear are from dead people and not from some other source like fairies or telepathic leakage? ---
**Author:** ![ashman165](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@ashman165](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ashman165)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/39 "2009-06-24T17:32:34Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Who said it was a problem?Why would you conclude that god is responsible for this phenomenon? God of the gaps, doncha know? In other words, “I lack the faculty to answer the question, thus god did it.” ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818/40 "2009-06-24T17:39:29Z")
> [@yorick73](#): > > Ooh…sorry to send you off on a rant. No problem. I enjoy ranting. 🆒 > [@The\_Hamster\_King](#): > > Again, I’ll ask. Why do you believe that the voices you hear are from dead people and not from some other source like fairies or telepathic leakage? Believe? Where did I say that I believe the voices are ghosts? I never said that – I’m just speculating, that’s all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypnagogia-voices-of-the-dead/500818.md?page=3)