# Hypocricy of Christianity in regard to stem cells **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 13, 2001, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045 "2001-08-13T15:36:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/41 "2001-08-14T00:02:46Z")
I posted my last post before seeing this, so I’d like to respond, without calling **musicguy** an asshole this time. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by musicguy \* > **But as a gay male, I have been ridiculed and persecuted all of my life because of who I am, not what I believe but what I am. That is a generalization.** Then you should have known better than to generalize all Christians. For the record, I had a gay uncle who died of AIDS back in the early 90s. My final split from organized religion (I’d already been drifting, but this was the final straw) came about as a result when I realized some people thought he brought his death on himself just for being gay. \*\* > [@](#): > > They make blanket statements that this research is wrong without ever thinking about the people this decision affects.\*\* Check out this [other thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=81540) where we make fun of religious people being sheep. Unfortunately, many times people can’t be bothered to think for themselves. It’s unfortunate, but that’s the world we live in. \*\* > [@](#): > > I am mad at “religion” folks, and at the people who follow it blindly, without ever wondering if they are hurting people in the process.\*\* And I was only hoping you saw a disctinction bewteen them and other Christians. With this out of the way, hopefully we can put aside the earlier disagreements. \*\* > [@](#): > > But I can still criticize the hippocracy, especially when it affects my life. \*\* No problem when it’s there, but as has been pointed out earlier, the hypocracy here is a little fuzzy, see **Enderw24** ’s post above. Sorry about the asshole thing. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/42 "2001-08-14T00:04:13Z")
**musicguy** : Clearly you have not had it easy. I wish you well with your health issues. Still, you should realize that this doesn’t give you the right to mount the attacks you did. Do I even need to point out the similarity between the treatment of gays you mentioned and the unfair generalization of all Christians? Hopefully not. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/43 "2001-08-14T00:22:37Z")
> [@](#): > > Sorry about the asshole thing. Did anyone else just think _Blazing Saddles_? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/44 "2001-08-14T00:30:25Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by musicguy \* > \*\* Also, since when has anyone who is religious been known to have an open mind towards anything scientific?_\* Well, Copernicus, and Isaac Newton, and Gregor Mendel, and Moses Maimonides, and Roger Bacon, and William of Occam, and al’Khwarizmi, and all those Babylonian priest-astronomers who charted the rising and setting of stars, and…well, I could go on, but I don’t see the point. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/45 "2001-08-14T00:31:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by musicguy \* > Musicguy: > > ## quote: > > ## since when has anyone who is religious been known to have an open mind towards anything scientific > > Waverly: OMG. Please don’t associate scientists with such generalizations. > > I was generalizing christians. They completely disregard science in the area of evolution, rather choosing to believe in a fairy tale. Their credibility was shot long before I made my accusation. Obviously you have yet to meet **Polycarp**. And obviously you’ve NEVER heard of Gregor Mendel, you ignorant peabrain. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/46 "2001-08-14T00:42:42Z")
> [@](#): > > I think there is no one right religion, and I doubt my own ideas are the best or right ones, but they work best for me. My religion doesn’t have a name. It is not legally recognized. It is not organized (hell, it’s mine, I can’t even organize my sock drawer). Goddammit, Crunchy, you stole MY religion!!! 😛 > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by musicguy \* > \*\*Boy, don’t insult a christian, they get violent. I’m sure your god is very proud of you. > > And Waverly, yes, it is very evident that you are not always nice. Are you ever? > > Lemurr: (or is that lemming) > > you say “many christians believe in evolution” ??? > > You are kidding, right? \*\* Crunchy just told you he is a Christian and he believes in evolution. What part did you not understand? SOME Christians, the Catholics in particular, believe that the Bible is a set of stories teaching us EXAMPLES. I swear to God, the first person who TOLD us not everything in the Bible was 100 percent accurate was a NUN. That’s right. A nun. She told us Adam and Eve was a story, because we really don’t know about the first man and woman. Maybe some of us believe that GOD caused evolution. Hell, maybe we were all dropped off by a mutant race of Moon Monkeys? Who the fuck cares? AND YOU are making blanket statements about what-30 percent of the population? Oh yes…that’s REALLY using your brain. BTW, what is this ‘hippocracy’ and how does it affect your life? Isn’t that a state run by hippos? :rolleyes: Good LORD…we are really knocking down these straw men, aren’t we folks? Wanna place bets on how long this guy lasts around here? ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/47 "2001-08-14T01:27:25Z")
I remember the Jewish History class I took in college. The professor, who was a rabbi, started talking about the pre-history of man, begining 50,000 years ago. I was confused. I was befuddled. I was perplexed and bewildered. _I_ knew that we were around back then, but this guy was a rabbi. He’s not supposed to believe that, is he? We were created almost 5762 years ago through a few snaps of God’s fingers. So I asked him after class. And he shrugged his shoulders and basically told me “why should I start lying to teach this class? We’re trying to learn Jewish _history_ here. The bible is a tool in getting that history, but it’s not the truth, merely a group of moralistic lessons to learn.” The bible doesn’t have to be The Bible. You can Believe without really believing. You can even not believe at all, but still understand. Or you can say, to hell with it all, it’s all a bunch of fairy tales and anything even remotely associated with it is more looney than Bugs Bunny. I, as an open minded individual, refuse to listen to you because you’re close minded. I can support my hipocracy because my penis is a good inch longer than yours. If you get nothing else from this rambling post, please at least understand this: when the people that _support_ your side start arguing against you because they’re embarrassed to be even be associated with your total lack of a coherent thought, you’ve pretty much lost the argument. ---
**Author:** ![panzermanpanzerman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9bcb4/32.png) [@panzermanpanzerman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panzermanpanzerman)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/48 "2001-08-14T01:48:15Z")
Geez… It’s so rare to see a thread where closed-minded, pea-brained, ignorant, foaming-at-the-mouth religious bigotry is called what it is. I’m so proud of you guys! Proud to call myself a doper. \ Acco40, musicguy: it’s clearly time you deeply examined your own prejudices and the blinders with which they have burdened you. Perhaps when you aren’t so quick to label others you won’t be so easily labeled yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/49 "2001-08-14T02:40:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by musicguy \* > \*\*I’ve been called every name in the book, some of it justified. \*\* I bet two of those names were “moron” and “ignoramus”. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/50 "2001-08-14T03:06:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Saint Zero \* > It must be so wonderful to note that after bludgeoning your ex-friend with badly formed arguements, you have the wisdom and understanding to immediately lump all “Fundamentalist Christians” into the same bucket. It goes beyond even that, SZ. Acco’s thread title said nothing about Fundamentalists. He said “Hypocricy of Christianity.” Evidently all Christians are this woman he talked to. Oh, and a big Clue to musicguy: there are quite a few Christians on this board who believe in evolution. You’re currently reading a post from one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/51 "2001-08-14T03:36:00Z")
England bans cloning, The U.S House bans it, and Germany and France are trying to get the UN to ban it. Sheesh. I read in the STAR that one day after the House banned it, An Arabian(??) scientist successfuly grew a heart in a lab. Oh, the Irony. I cannot wait to see how this will go in the future. Will something as valuable as this be thrown away for naught? I hate to see what flavor of shit will hit the fan when it is time to discuss human persona uploads in computers. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/52 "2001-08-14T03:47:34Z")
[quote] _Originally posted by musicguy_They make blanket statements that this research is wrong without ever thinking about the people this decision affects. [/quote/ Gee, I bet you really hate people who make blanket statements then, huh. > [@](#): > > you say “many christians believe in evolution” ??? > > You are kidding, right? Believe it or not, you will find on this board, if you choose to stick around, that there are many open-minded people here. There are intelligent, wonderful people who do not follow everything blindly. [insert disclaimer so that I don’t get flamed by **musicguy** when he finds the _one_ person who does] > [@](#): > > I was generalizing christians. Well then, allow me to make a generalization about gay music guys who have Parkinson’s disease. They are ignorant dumbasses who present us with the _most_ hypocritical statements I have heard in a long time, pertaining to being lumped together and criticized by Christians who disagree with them based on their religious beliefs, which of course, are universal regardless of the person. Yeah, you gotta watch those Parkinsons disease-music-loving-gay-guys…:rollseyes: > [@](#): > > They completely disregard science in the area of evolution, rather choosing to believe in a fairy tale. I think we’ve already given you enough examples of the contrary, there’s no need to argue this anymore. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/53 "2001-08-14T03:50:08Z")
I need to get in the habit of preview. sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/54 "2001-08-14T04:04:50Z")
Hey everyone, **musicguy** has already said some things, and here’s my take on them: > [@](#): > > I think you have a right to believe anything you want, about me, about religion, about stem cell research. To me, he is taking back any perceived attack on Christianity here. > [@](#): > > But I don’t think any of you are assholes and I think you have all made your points quite elequently. So here he’s saying he gets the point. > [@](#): > > I am mad at “religion” folks, and at the people who follow it blindly, without ever wondering if they are hurting people in the process. Do I think all Christians are bad people? Absolutely not. I personally like the morals that it attempts to convey for the most part. I think that some Christians do a lot of good in this world. To me, this is saying he realizes not all Christians think alike, and is only angry with the sheep of the world who refuse to look at all sides of an argument to decide for themselves. This is obviously a topic that hits very close to **musicguy’s** heart. It’s possible that he said some things in the heat of the moment that he didn’t really mean, including the generalizations. We’ve all done the same at some point or another, haven’t we? I’m willing to extend to him the benefit of that doubt in light of the last post he made. It seems to me, **musicguy** extended an olive branch in the last post. Are you going to accept it or is the continuing pile-on really necessary? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Lao](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Dr.Lao](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Lao)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/55 "2001-08-14T05:56:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Waverly \* > \*\*Dr. Lao: > > > [@](#): > > > > Most fundamentalists I have talked to… > > This is a true statement. However, you should recognize that you say _most_ and not _all_, and that this sampling is limited to those that you personally have talked to. I still don’t think it’s fair tactics to make sweeping generalizations based on this information.\*\* FTR, I was not trying to generalize my experiences to all Christians. I was trying to provide a counterexample to the OP’s generalization that all Christians are hypocritical when it comes to abortion, embryonic stem cell research, and _in vitro_ fertilization. Many Christians do not hold the inconsistant beliefs outlined in the OP, therefore his conclusion is incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/56 "2001-08-14T11:31:11Z")
Ah, with all the generalization launching I think your subtle point got lost, **Dr. Lao**. My apologies, I didn’t place enough emphasis on the italics to put your thoughts in the proper context. ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/57 "2001-08-14T14:46:19Z")
Well, First off, I have learned a few things from you all. First is why they call this the BBQ pit. I feel like a steak. Second, you are all the first Christians that I have ever met that don’t believe the bible literally. I have met not a few, but hundreds of Christians. My experience in talking to them has always been the same. The bible is to be taken word for word. It would seem that I have developed a prejudiced view based on what I have experienced. I have been enlightened and I must say that I am quite pleased to know that there are Christians who use common sense. I HONESTLY had never been exposed to that. Speaking as a person that despises prejudice, I am a bit ashamed that I came off that way. I would like to sincerely apologize to any person on this board that I offended. I am mad at the system, not at the followers. Third, while I do admit that my stereotyping was wrong, It would have been nice if people had simply stated why I was wrong instead of resorting to 3rd grade name calling. I came to debate and with the exception of my “all christians” generalization and my stated displeasure of the clown in the white house, I never called anyone any names. And finally, it is obvious that anyone who doesn’t agree with your views on this board is an idiot, moron, asshole, etc… That is a shame. Nobody ever really wanted to debate the issue, only ridicule the newbie. I understand that I pushed buttons but a simple “Hey, You are wrong and this is why” could have been worked out quickly. But I guess that’s not the way it works around here. Glad you had your fun. ---
**Author:** ![musicguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ba0ec/32.png) [@musicguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/musicguy)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/58 "2001-08-14T14:50:24Z")
Thanks, Crunchy Frog I appreciated your post a great deal. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/59 "2001-08-14T14:54:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by musicguy \* > \*\*Third, while I do admit that my stereotyping was wrong, It would have been nice if people had simply stated why I was wrong instead of resorting to 3rd grade name calling. I came to debate and with the exception of my “all christians” generalization and my stated displeasure of the clown in the white house, I never called anyone any names. > > And finally, it is obvious that anyone who doesn’t agree with your views on this board is an idiot, moron, asshole, etc… That is a shame. Nobody ever really wanted to debate the issue, only ridicule the newbie. I understand that I pushed buttons but a simple “Hey, You are wrong and this is why” could have been worked out quickly. But I guess that’s not the way it works around here. Glad you had your fun. \*\* Yes, well, in another forum, you would’ve met with a kinder reception. But, as you pointed out, this is the pit, and people do like to flame in here. However, people here are also quick to forgive. You never wronged me, so I can’t really forgive you, but I doubt anyone will hold too much of a grudge after they read your apology. In the meantime, welcome to the boards. Just out of curiosity, what part of the country are you in? And do you live in a more rural area? That might explain why all the Christians you’ve encountered have a literalist approach. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2001, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045/60 "2001-08-14T15:03:37Z")
**musicguy** , May I offer a bit of advice? You’re free to ignore it, of course. If you understand that you pushed buttons when you began posting in this thread, why are you surprised that people pushed back? You don’t hold the patent on righteous indignation. We don’t suffer fools gladly on these message boards. In my time here, the worst flamings I’ve seen have been aimed toward those who refuse to open their minds. The prejudices can be against religions, scientific methods, skin colors, circumcision or SUVs (THAT one was a hoot). Doesn’t really matter. If you refuse to listen to a viable alternative theory (or, worse, refuse to believe the personal experience of a poster), you get called on it. And, since this is the Pit, your call comes via flamethrower. I’m not saying you’re a fool. I’m saying you acted foolish when you began posting in the thread. You seem to accept that now, and you’ve apologized (although in a rather half-assed way, in my opinion). I’m truly sorry for the troubles you’ve experienced in your life. I know it won’t matter to you, but if you have no objection I’d like to pray for you. My uncle died of Parkinson’s, and I have some small idea of the pain and frustration you experience. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocricy-of-christianity-in-regard-to-stem-cells/76045.md?page=4)