# Hypocrite PC-zealots and their strawmen. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 27, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670 "2018-07-27T13:40:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/21 "2018-07-27T16:17:46Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > That post was the first time I ever told anyone that as a youngster I was groped by an old guy ( in a wheelcair, no less ) and thanks for your responses it sure as hell was also the last. So tell us, what were you wearing at the time? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/22 "2018-07-27T16:27:51Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > And another thing. > > What’s the deal with these 6 and 7 year olds dressing up like they are 12 or 13? Is it any wonder? Did you see the way Jon Benet dressed? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/23 "2018-07-27T16:28:42Z")
Gropers are the ones who make the decision to grope. They may think it’s more okay to grope certain women, or women who wear certain clothing, than others. That’s all on them, and on society which may send some of these signals. It’s not at all the fault of women who choose to wear whatever clothing they wish. And women should never be chastised or criticized that their choice of clothing is too revealing, or too sexy, or whatever, when it comes to sexual assault. It’s all on the groper. And maybe a bit on broader society, which doesn’t teach all men that sexual assault is monstrous and horrible, or teaches men that some women want to be groped. It’s never, ever, not even 0.001%, on the victim of sexual assault. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/24 "2018-07-27T16:47:15Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > Then I mentioned her scant dress might have contributed and it might’ve not been the best choice in a place where groping problem was so rampant This point of view makes a certain amount of sense, and at one time I probably would have been inclined to agree with it. But I’ve come to believe that it is incorrect. I reject it, not because I’m a PC fanatic, but because I’ve become convinced that it’s wrong, on both factual and moral grounds. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/25 "2018-07-27T16:49:56Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > This point of view makes a certain amount of sense, and at one time I probably would have been inclined to agree with it. But I’ve come to believe that it is incorrect. I reject it, not because I’m a PC fanatic, but because I’ve become convinced that it’s wrong, on both factual and moral grounds. And all those Democrat indoctrination films we had to watch in PC Camp had _nothing_ to do with it? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/26 "2018-07-27T16:55:07Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > Second: I did not read a single post from it after my last post, because I had enough of that crap. Probably won’t read any of this either, I’ve no illusions of converting fanatics. So why did you bother to create this thread? ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/27 "2018-07-27T16:56:44Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > So why did you bother to create this thread? Because he doesn’t have a blog? ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/28 "2018-07-27T17:06:29Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > That post was the first time I ever told anyone that as a youngster I was groped by an old guy ( in a wheelcair, no less ) But what were you wearing? I’m sure it was partly your fault. THAT’S why people rightly got upset. What a person is or isn’t wearing is NOT an invitation. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/29 "2018-07-27T17:17:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > And all those Democrat indoctrination films we had to watch in PC Camp had _nothing_ to do with it? Shh. The first rule of PC camp is… no Macs. But the second rule of PC Camp is, you don’t talk about PC camp. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/30 "2018-07-27T17:21:43Z")
… still a proud MS user… ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/31 "2018-07-27T17:26:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Oh yeah…back when any/all questions about PCs were answered with “Get an Apple” or “Install Linux” right off the bat. Still should be. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/32 "2018-07-27T17:56:33Z")
If she was wearing shorts with 'Please grope my ass 🙂 ’ written across them, you _may_ have had a point. If visible skin is simply taken as the equivalent of that by some Gropy McGropersen, that’s entirely on him. ‘Don’t touch’ is something we expect a three-year-old to understand. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/33 "2018-07-27T18:15:41Z")
Fuck you. I’ve been groped wearing a relatively modest, if above the knees, dress. Went to Portland to drink with some friends, had to take public transit back to my car, got a bit lost downtown. Some guy stopped me at the bus stop and hit on me, ending with him groping my ass and then blowing a kiss at clearly uncomfortable me. (That’s the only time I’ve really been groped, but I’ve been harassed many more times) Can dress contribute? Sure, maybe if I wasn’t dolled up I wouldn’t have gotten stopped, **maybe**. I doubt it though, he probably would’ve stopped any woman he found attractive alone at that bus stop. But I don’t exactly live my life making wardrobe choices min/maxing the possibility I’ll get raped or harassed, nor should I. I was thinking “what would be a cute outfit I could wear with my friends at a few bars”, not “what mode of dress would most deter gropers in case I get lost in downtown Portland at midnight”. Sure, maybe if I’m just passing through the highest rape neighborhood in the country I won’t wear my tiniest dress and push up bra, but in the vast majority of situations that’s not even how this shit happens. We dress for an event and then bad shit happens on the way, or someone turns out to be an asshole at the event we thought was a safe place. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/34 "2018-07-27T18:23:48Z")
**SaneBill** , [some people are accusing you of “defending the groper.”](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=859473) I haven’t carefully read every post you made in the original thread, but judging just from this thread’s OP, that’s not what you’re doing, and I can understand why you’re upset at being accused of it. What you are claiming, IIUC, is that what the waitress was wearing encouraged the groper to do what he did; that she would have been less likely to be groped if she had been dressed more modestly; and that therefore people who don’t want to be groped should factor that into their choice of apparel. As I’ve said before, I think you’re wrong about this. But I don’t think it’s the same as defending gropers, any more than suggesting that drivers should leave their car doors unlocked is defending car thieves, or suggesting that swimmers should stay out of shark-infested waters is defending sharks eating people. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/35 "2018-07-27T18:23:55Z")
TBH, I shouldn’t even say we don’t think about it. That’s a lie, we’re hyperaware of it because of people constantly telling us to be aware of our dress or mannerisms or whatever. I have my hand in my purse ready to grab my keys on my way home from the grocery store at 10PM. But there’s really only so much you can fucking do. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/36 "2018-07-27T18:26:48Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > So why did you bother to create this thread? He didn’t want to miss out on his chance to say, “AND ONE MORE THING!” ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/37 "2018-07-27T18:29:36Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > **SaneBill** , [some people are accusing you of “defending the groper.”](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=859473) I haven’t carefully read every post you made in the original thread, but judging just from this thread’s OP, that’s not what you’re doing, and I can understand why you’re upset at being accused of it. > > What you are claiming, IIUC, is that what the waitress was wearing encouraged the groper to do what he did; that she would have been less likely to be groped if she had been dressed more modestly; and that therefore people who don’t want to be groped should factor that into their choice of apparel. > > As I’ve said before, I think you’re wrong about this. But I don’t think it’s the same as defending gropers, any more than suggesting that drivers should leave their car doors unlocked is defending car thieves, or suggesting that swimmers should stay out of shark-infested waters is defending sharks eating people. The comment about being triggered by seeing skin comes close, imho, to defending the assault not as something that is ok, but rather that the guy who did it maybe just couldn’t help himself. ---
**Author:** ![Turpentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecd19e/32.png) [@Turpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Turpentine)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/38 "2018-07-27T19:03:51Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > …as a youngster I was groped by an old guy ( in a wheelchair, no less ) Was it George HW Bush? ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/39 "2018-07-27T21:03:59Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > … What kind of sick, twisted mind can bend “there are bad things out there, be careful” into “She asked for it and I would’ve groped her too.” ? > Everybody who is honest knows that the dress can sometimes contribute. Some perverts even take miniskirts as an invitation > > I’ve heard that pc-crowd is turning into religious zealots and with this I can see that it’s actually true with some people. The funny thing is that here in the SDMB you, without a shred of irony, are mocking trumpheads when they twist everything that their Messiah says or does so that it would seem positive. You are ready to go so far that even warning about a risk is forbidden, because it’s somehow blames the victim. You rather seem them groped than forewarned. > > You are damn strawman-building hypocrites and enablers. I agree with this post. The progressives at SDMB are as adept at jumping to unwarranted conclusions as many Trumpists. I think **SaneBill** is sane; I’m not so sure about some of you guys. When I watched that video, I was surprised at the outfit she was wearing and even spent a while Googling to see if that was a restaurant that featured, to draw customers, thinly clad waitresses. Of course the groping was still very wrong, but I wondered if the restaurant’s air-con was broken, or what? I clicked away from the thread without further ado. I was sincerely confused about her attire but knew any question would be met with bigoted and pretentious bullshit. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > This is going to end up real well for you. Yep. _Real_ well. Well, please spare **SaneBill** a little and send half the holier-than-thou ignorant bullshit my way. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2018, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/40 "2018-07-27T21:13:29Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > I wondered if the restaurant’s air-con was broken, or what? She’s working outside, in Savannah, Georgia, in summer. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670.md?page=3)