# Hypocrite PC-zealots and their strawmen. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 27, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670 "2018-07-27T13:40:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/61 "2018-07-28T05:21:51Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > Are you ever going to realize how cartoonish it is for a grown-ass person to use the term _potty mouth_ unironically? His mommy wouldn’t let him watch cartoons. She said they were full of no-nos. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/62 "2018-07-28T05:25:21Z")
> [@splatterpunk](#): > > Really? You care? You care what the OP thinks about what women wear? Because you agree that women who dress provocatively deserve to be groped and raped? Color me surprised. Your terrible reading comprehension is part of the problem. The OP isn’t complaining about what women wear. The OP isn’t saying that women deserve to be groped or raped. You and several other clowns on this site just can’t get it through your thick skulls that people who aren’t 100% in agreement with whatever current idea you all are promoting might actually agree with most of what some of you all have to say. But you fools are so obsessed with enforcing ideological conformity you alienate potential allies. That’s what people like the OP are complaining about. Your crazy, unsubstantiated, and illogical accusations prove my point and leave me amused at the futility of trying to communicate with zealots. > [@](#): > > And Jesus Fucking Jumped Up Christ. Are you ever going to realize how cartoonish it is for a grown-ass person to use the term _potty mouth_ unironically? It’s fucking beyond stupid. It’s like being pulled over by a cop wearing cargo shorts and sandals. No one is ever going to take your shit seriously. But again, color me surprised. Probably explains why you don’t have a job. Potty mouth. ---
**Author:** ![epbrown01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ba0ec/32.png) [@epbrown01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/epbrown01)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/63 "2018-07-28T05:26:41Z")
> [@SaneBill](#): > > Then I mentioned her scant dress might have contributed and it might’ve not been the best choice in a place where groping problem was so rampant that they had to install cameras because of it. > Apparently that was blaming the victim and taking sides with the groper and even being a groper myself, and that I think women should wear burkhas if they didn’t want to be groped. Here’s the thing on the clothing issue: groping has been around as long as people have. People have been groped throughout human history, wearing as little as a mammoth fur bikini and as much as full leather battle gear. People have been groped while wearing 20 lbs of wool and cotton after not having bathed in a month or so, before shampoo, mouthwash, and perfume were even concepts. Huge swathes of human history have had people as covered up as possible, and the incidents continued. There has been no Golden Age of Non-Groping. If we can be absolutely certain of one thing about groping, it’s that it is based on the poor impulse control of the groper combined with circumstances that make the groper think they can get away with it (like anonymity or a position of power), and has nothing to do with what the victim was wearing. Someone cited strip clubs and that’s a good example. If it were about scanty clothing, strippers should be ceaselessly, relentlessly groped by out of control men, while outnumbered security personnel desperately tried to stem the tide. They aren’t (as a rule), because those men know they won’t get away with it. But you can bet that if there was a gentlemen’s club with women in full burkhas and no bouncers/security, there’d be a whole lotta groping going on. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/64 "2018-07-28T05:38:48Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > You and several other clowns on this site just can’t get it through your thick skulls that people who aren’t 100% in agreement with whatever current idea you all are promoting might actually agree with most of what some of you all have to say. But you fools are so obsessed with enforcing ideological conformity you alienate potential allies. This is standard conservative-speak for _“Since it’s finally dawning on me that your position on this issue is not only displacing mine in general popularity but also intrinsically more ethical than mine, I guess I’ll have to grudgingly adopt it while pretending that I’ve always believed it. But I’ll try to save a little face by whining and grumbling about your so-called ‘lack of civility’ or ‘ideological rigidity’ in defending your position.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Helena330](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/helena330/32/531_2.png) [@Helena330](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Helena330)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/65 "2018-07-28T05:43:35Z")
Typical octopus derail. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/66 "2018-07-28T05:46:53Z")
Simplest interpretation is octopus would prefer a thousand women being raped over one liberal being correct about something. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/67 "2018-07-28T05:55:24Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > This is standard conservative-speak for _“Since it’s finally dawning on me that your position on this issue is not only displacing mine in general popularity but also intrinsically more ethical than mine, I guess I’ll have to grudgingly adopt it while pretending that I’ve always believed it. But I’ll try to save a little face by whining and grumbling about your so-called ‘lack of civility’ or ‘ideological rigidity’ in defending your position.”_ You argue the wrong thing. Again, the OP and folks who bring up behaviors that can mitigate being victimized aren’t victim blaming. In the real world, there are many variables that lead to crime. Yes, the criminal is the one ultimately responsible but to say that the criminal lives in a vacuum is absurd. And it’s not even arguing about whether or not the OP’s premise is correct. It’s the predictable and exceedingly aggressive personal attacks that are the trademark of what is becoming a modern theology of wacky liberalism that’s the problem. You people, yeah I said “you people”, can’t help yourselves when it comes to reacting to what is perceived as blasphemy. Sad. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Simplest interpretation is octopus would prefer a thousand women being raped over one liberal being correct about something. Not at all. It’s not the simplest interpretation nor is it anywhere near the correct one. It’s embarrassing that time and time again the simplest fallacies are perpetuated on this board though. This “fighting ignorance” thing is hard to do when it’s the ignorant doing the most fighting. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/68 "2018-07-28T06:05:33Z")
I dunno, I feel sufficiently vindicated in my opinion of you. Liberals being confident about something really seems to get to you, regardless of what it is they’re being confident about. Of course, I see people reacting the same way when HurricaneDitka gets gloaty about some short-term success of Trump’s, so it’s not a problem specific to you personally. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/69 "2018-07-28T06:09:40Z")
Odd how what Octopus calls “ideological purity” are actions which I call “manners”. ---
**Author:** ![blob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blob/32/489_2.png) [@blob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blob)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/70 "2018-07-28T06:25:24Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Your crazy, unsubstantiated, and illogical accusations 😃 It’s in the criminal code. The offender was charged with the criminal offence created by the laws of Georgia. BTW, OP, do you know what a strawman is? Calling you to account for something YOU ACTUALLY SAID isn’t it. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/71 "2018-07-28T06:36:41Z")
> [@blob](#): > > 😃 It’s in the criminal code. The offender was charged with the criminal offence created by the laws of Georgia. > > BTW, OP, do you know what a strawman is? > > Calling you to account for something YOU ACTUALLY SAID isn’t it. What? I’m not saying the groper wasn’t groping. I’m saying that personally attacking people because they are making the argument that how one dresses may play a role in someone else’s behavior is not the proper method to debate a point of view nor is it a defense of gropers and rapists. I honestly have a hard time believing that people read so poorly. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/72 "2018-07-28T06:37:58Z")
Oh, why can’t we return to the glorious early 1950s, when stuff like this either wasn’t talked about (hence people like octopus wouldn’t be forced to feel uncomfortable about it) or was just no big deal. Women getting assaulted, blacks being at the backs of buses… you know, the Golden Age. ---
**Author:** ![blob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blob/32/489_2.png) [@blob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blob)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/73 "2018-07-28T06:47:32Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I honestly have a hard time believing that people read so poorly. Indeed. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/74 "2018-07-28T06:52:18Z")
> [@blob](#): > > Indeed. 😃 Octopus’s mommy taught him a song for confusing times like these: _Listen to your mommy’s song Where right is right and wrong is wrong And if you find things going south Never become a potty-mouth!_ And then she’d make sure the lesson sunk in by beating him with a bible. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/75 "2018-07-28T06:53:54Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Again, the OP and folks who bring up behaviors that can mitigate being victimized aren’t victim blaming. When they are pulling out of their ass arbitrary restrictions on the victims’ (legal and normal) behavior, with the unsupported assertion that such restrictions “can mitigate being victimized”, then yes, they are victim blaming. A lot of things “can mitigate being victimized”, including increased social disapproval of victimizing others, subjecting the perpetrators of victimization to increased surveillance, apprehension and punishment, and calling out people who try to normalize and trivialize acts of victimization. If your preferred shibboleth is instead to insist that victims and potential victims ought to restrict the way that they go about their (legal and normal) business, even though it’s obvious that many people who **do** abide by such restrictions **also** get victimized, then you’ve outed yourself as a victim-blamer. > [@octopus](#): > > It’s the predictable and exceedingly aggressive personal attacks that are the trademark of what is becoming a modern theology of wacky liberalism that’s the problem. AFAICT the standard response among you people to such complaints is “fuck your feelings”, or perhaps “aw snowflake, are you triggered?” If you don’t like the deterioration in recent decades of civility in political/ideological disputes, you really have almost entirely yourselves to blame for it. Modern liberals may have espoused freer use of general profanity and obscenity across all forms of discourse, but the modern culture of adversarial unhinged inflammatory insult is primarily due to conservatives. Moreover, AFAICT both the original thread that prompted this OP and the current thread itself are in the BBQ Pit forum. If you’re whining about excessive aggressiveness and personal attacks in a messageboard forum designed specifically to accommodate excessive aggressiveness and personal attacks, then “fuck your feelings” is really the only appropriate response. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/76 "2018-07-28T06:59:52Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > And another thing. > > What’s the deal with these 6 and 7 year olds dressing up like they are 12 or 13? Is it any wonder? Yeah. I’m old enough to remember when wearing a thong when you’re still in diapers was considered outrageous. ∞ is the new 8. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/77 "2018-07-28T07:05:11Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Oh, why can’t we return to the glorious early 1950s, when stuff like this either wasn’t talked about (hence people like octopus wouldn’t be forced to feel uncomfortable about it) or was just no big deal. > > Women getting assaulted, blacks being at the backs of buses… you know, the Golden Age. There’s the strawman that blob was looking for. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/78 "2018-07-28T07:10:54Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > When they are pulling out of their ass arbitrary restrictions on the victims’ (legal and normal) behavior, with the unsupported assertion that such restrictions “can mitigate being victimized”, then yes, they are victim blaming. > > A lot of things “can mitigate being victimized”, including increased social disapproval of victimizing others, subjecting the perpetrators of victimization to increased surveillance, apprehension and punishment, and calling out people who try to normalize and trivialize acts of victimization. > > If your preferred shibboleth is instead to insist that victims and potential victims ought to restrict the way that they go about their (legal and normal) business, even though it’s obvious that many people who **do** abide by such restrictions **also** get victimized, then you’ve outed yourself as a victim-blamer. > AFAICT the standard response among you people to such complaints is “fuck your feelings”, or perhaps “aw snowflake, are you triggered?” > > If you don’t like the deterioration in recent decades of civility in political/ideological disputes, you really have almost entirely yourselves to blame for it. Modern liberals may have espoused freer use of general profanity and obscenity across all forms of discourse, but the modern culture of adversarial unhinged inflammatory insult is primarily due to conservatives. > > Moreover, AFAICT both the original thread that prompted this OP and the current thread itself are in the BBQ Pit forum. If you’re whining about excessive aggressiveness and personal attacks in a messageboard forum designed specifically to accommodate excessive aggressiveness and personal attacks, then “fuck your feelings” is really the only appropriate response. That’s nice. I’m not advocating people need to cover up to avoid assault. Let me ask you this though, do you use a password on your bank account? Do you lock your house door? Your car door? Do you take any precautions if you have your child babysat? Would the advocating of any of those actions be in any way victim blaming? What I am advocating is that when one presents a point of view the _proper_ way of contesting the issue is to actually contest the issue. This board is infested with those who either lack the intellect or the temperament to do so. And that is sad. It’s sad because I bet most of you all would get at least triple digits on an IQ test. Therefore, if you folks are above average what’s that say about those at 99 and below? :eek: It means debate and logic are anachronistic. The only thing that matters in the present is how one can manipulate emotion. Now I am depressed. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/79 "2018-07-28T07:13:59Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > There’s the strawman that blob was looking for. Not really - it’s mockery of you and your positions and your writing style, with no pretensions that I’ve scored some rhetorical point. I’m just amusing myself because I am very very very unlikely to ever take you seriously. For your own peace of mind, you should probably put me on your ignore list and then get back to challenging liberals not for their views but because they seem to be _rude_ about those views, and that just gives you the vapors. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/80 "2018-07-28T07:26:31Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Not really - it’s mockery of you and your positions and your writing style, with no pretensions that I’ve scored some rhetorical point. I’m just amusing myself because I am very very very unlikely to ever take you seriously. For your own peace of mind, you should probably put me on your ignore list and then get back to challenging liberals not for their views but because they seem to be _rude_ about those views, and that just gives you the vapors. Why would I put anyone here on ignore? Seems silly. And I’m not writing to impress you. Why would I care what you think? I think you overestimate your significance. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670.md?page=5)