# Hypocrite PC-zealots and their strawmen. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 27, 2018, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670 "2018-07-27T13:40:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/101 "2018-07-28T18:52:18Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > Guy, there is no “differing point of view” regarding unwanted sexual touching. How do you find this hill even worthy of defending, much less dying on? I think I figured it out - he’s not defending the right of people to sexually assault people, he’s defending the right of other people to say sexually assaulting people isn’t entirely the fault of the assailant. He’s defending the rights of the defenders of sexual predators. I’ll gladly defend his right to defend the rights of the people who defend the rights of sexual predators. I only hope someone will one day defend _my_ rights to defend his rights to defend their rights to defend sexual predators, and please not be potty-mouthed about it. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/102 "2018-07-28T19:01:13Z")
“I don’t defend your right to grope people, but I will defend to my death your right to get offended at people who are offended by your groping!” Octopus Voltaire, 2018. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/103 "2018-07-28T19:09:08Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > “I don’t defend your right to grope people, but I will defend to my death your right to get offended at people who are offended by your groping!” > > Octopus Voltaire, 2018. This post has been groped by The Gropist. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/104 "2018-07-28T20:57:47Z")
> [@](#): > > However, I don’t think it’s a problem if other people want to advance a different point of view. What you folks are doing, you wise and “intelligent” folks, is projecting your inability to accept differing points of view onto me. Damn! Now I’m actually embarrassed for how dim you really are. Is this seriously the extent of your ability to reason? As if defending sexual assault perps is just a ‘differing point of view’. Are you open to the defending the ‘differing point of view’ that sex with children is okay? Incest? What you’re suggesting is equally as ridiculous. That’s exactly how stupid you’re being. Repeatedly, unrelentingly, loudly and proudly. I’d rather be a potty mouth with an ability to actually think and reason! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/105 "2018-07-28T21:49:38Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Damn! Now I’m actually embarrassed for how dim you really are. Is this seriously the extent of your ability to reason? > > As if defending sexual assault perps is just a ‘differing point of view’. Are you open to the defending the ‘differing point of view’ that sex with children is okay? Incest? What you’re suggesting is equally as ridiculous. That’s exactly how stupid you’re being. Repeatedly, unrelentingly, loudly and proudly. > > I’d rather be a potty mouth with an ability to actually think and reason! Yeah. If people advance unpopular opinions I’m willing to see those opinions debated on the merits of the position instead of attacking the poster. That’s the difference between rationality and zealotry. It’s truly sad that you think that that position is dim and not yours. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/106 "2018-07-28T21:59:31Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Damn! Now I’m actually embarrassed for how dim you really are. Is this seriously the extent of your ability to reason? > > As if defending sexual assault perps is just a ‘differing point of view’. Are you open to the defending the ‘differing point of view’ that sex with children is okay? Incest? What you’re suggesting is equally as ridiculous. That’s exactly how stupid you’re being. Repeatedly, unrelentingly, loudly and proudly. > > I’d rather be a potty mouth with an ability to actually think and reason! Given the nature of the medium, shouldn’t that be “potty fingers”? ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/107 "2018-07-28T23:13:56Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Yeah. If people advance unpopular opinions I’m willing to see those opinions debated on the merits of the position instead of attacking the poster. That’s the difference between rationality and zealotry. It’s truly sad that you think that that position is dim and not yours. > [@octopus](#): > > You all ought to emulate epbrown01 above. His or her post addressed the topic reasonably. No name calling necessary. > [@Kimstu](#): > > And yet **epbrown01** ’s post apparently still wasn’t enough to save you from the stupidity of trying to draw a false equivalence between normal, conventional clothing choices and failing to put a password on one’s bank account. > > Tell us, **octopus** : if you don’t like “potty-mouthed” “name-calling” aggression but you persist in disregarding logical arguments that are reasonable and invective-free, how exactly is anybody supposed to disagree with you? I’m starting to suspect that it’s the mere fact of being disagreed with that you find so offensive. Need I elaborate? > [@...Trevor Noah.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/21): > > As a rule, I cut comedians more slack than than I do other folk, as being somewhat offensive is part of their job description. **It wasn’t a good moment for Trevor though.** > > In other news, there has been a rash of tasteless jokes resurfaced from years ago. [Kevin Drum explains why](https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/07/hetes-a-grammar-lesson-for-internet-reporters/): [INDENT] These kinds of tweets don’t just “resurface.” Some actual person with an axe to grind spends hours or weeks plowing through old archives in order to find ancient material like this. Even when it’s obviously a joke—tasteless but still a joke—they know that it might damage the target’s career. > > Why bother? Not because anyone cares about these specific people. They’re discovered at random, after all. The reason is so that genuinely hateful tweets and social media posts from neo-Nazis and white nationalists can be played down when _they’re_ discovered. After all, “everyone does it,” right? [/INDENT] **With that in mind, I’d advise my readers to distinguish between patterns and isolated incidents, and between misfired comedic routines and weaponized humor as a method of pushing vile ideas.** Usually I try to avoid posting bare-bone responses, but for this, I’ll just multiple-bold for the +1. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2018, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/108 "2018-07-28T23:32:47Z")
> [@...Trevor Noah.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trevor-noah/818650/21): > > As a rule, I cut comedians more slack than than I do other folk, as being somewhat offensive is part of their job description. It wasn’t a good moment for Trevor though. > > In other news, there has been a rash of tasteless jokes resurfaced from years ago. [Kevin Drum explains why](https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2018/07/hetes-a-grammar-lesson-for-internet-reporters/): [INDENT] These kinds of tweets don’t just “resurface.” Some actual person with an axe to grind spends hours or weeks plowing through old archives in order to find ancient material like this. Even when it’s obviously a joke—tasteless but still a joke—they know that it might damage the target’s career. > > Why bother? Not because anyone cares about these specific people. They’re discovered at random, after all. The reason is so that genuinely hateful tweets and social media posts from neo-Nazis and white nationalists can be played down when _they’re_ discovered. After all, “everyone does it,” right? [/INDENT] With that in mind, I’d advise my readers to distinguish between patterns and isolated incidents, and between misfired comedic routines and weaponized humor as a method of pushing vile ideas. > [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > Usually I try to avoid posting bare-bone responses, but for this, I’ll just multiple-bold for the +1. Huh! Funny! Wrong thread! Oh well - there’s enough crossover. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/109 "2018-07-29T00:21:31Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > I’m starting to suspect that it’s the mere fact of being disagreed with that you find so offensive. **octopus** is a sock of **Dio**. But this time he’s playing the part a bit dumber. He hates anyone disagreeing with him and he hijacks every thread to be all about him. It’s the Dio/octopus show all over again. ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/110 "2018-07-29T00:29:23Z")
The Man On the Silver Mountain should never be fucked with. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/111 "2018-07-29T00:32:06Z")
You said A, which in my mind is inextricably linked with B. So I’m going to harangue you and inveigh against your support for B, despite the fact that you haven’t said anything about B. Because. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/112 "2018-07-29T01:24:19Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > **octopus** is a sock of **Dio**. But this time he’s playing the part a bit dumber. > > He hates anyone disagreeing with him and he hijacks every thread to be all about him. > > It’s the Dio/octopus show all over again. And this, kids, is why drinking is bad. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/113 "2018-07-29T01:32:18Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And this, kids, is why drinking is bad. On the other hand, it makes _you_ almost tolerable. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/114 "2018-07-29T02:00:53Z")
Well, now I’ve just lost track of who or what octopus is championing. Whose rights are or ever were under threat? The guy who groped the waitress should indeed get full due process of law and respect for his civil rights from police officers and the courts. This strikes me as sufficiently obvious that I’m unclear who was calling for anything else. If, instead, we are one step removed and octopus is defending the rights of people who want to say that the waitress’s outfit was a factor in the assault, I’m unclear when those people’s rights were being infringed as opposed to other people just telling them that they were being stupid. Is octopus suggesting the second group should not have that right? If so, octopus is defending people who don’t need to be defended because their rights are not under attack. I’m not aware that any human civilization has ever recognized a civil right to not to be told when you’re being stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/115 "2018-07-29T02:41:04Z")
You had it right here, I think, except with more condescension towards our hive mind. Conform or die! > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > I think I figured it out - he’s not defending the right of people to sexually assault people, he’s defending the right of other people to say sexually assaulting people isn’t entirely the fault of the assailant. He’s defending the rights of the defenders of sexual predators. I’ll gladly defend his right to defend the rights of the people who defend the rights of sexual predators. > > I only hope someone will one day defend _my_ rights to defend his rights to defend their rights to defend sexual predators, and please not be potty-mouthed about it. > [@JohnT](#): > > “I don’t defend your right to grope people, but I will defend to my death your right to get offended at people who are offended by your groping!” > > Octopus Voltaire, 2018. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/116 "2018-07-29T04:19:59Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > And this, kids, is why drinking is bad. “No, it isn’t.” -Dio ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/117 "2018-07-29T05:02:22Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > “No, it isn’t.” > -Dio You are not the only fool to make this baseless accusation of “socking.” Like I told that troll Morgenstern if you have any evidence feel free to share it with the mods/admin. Otherwise, like Morgenstern, you are just a lying troll. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/118 "2018-07-29T05:06:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You said A, which in my mind is inextricably linked with B. So I’m going to harangue you and inveigh against your support for B, despite the fact that you haven’t said anything about B. > > Because. Do you not get tired of these rhetorical tactics? This is an attempt to argue the next point, which creates tacit agreement on the first point. I almost fell for it, arguing why it can be reasonable to assume that B is linked to A, and how dishonest arguers will argue A when B is easily disputed. But that’s not what’s going on here. The OP’s argument, again, is that the man was “triggered” into groping. This inherently is reducing or eliminating blame from the groper. Then we have the argument that how a woman dresses makes her more likely to be raped. This is false. Finally, we have **octopus** moving the goalposts, claiming he was now just telling us how our arguing was bad. This can be shown to be false seeing as we effectively counterargued him into changing his position. So, whether A B and C are linked is irrelevant, as we can disprove all parts separately. That said, they are linked. They aren’t linked merely in our heads, but in actual practice–both in general, and in this specific incidence. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/119 "2018-07-29T05:14:14Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Do you not get tired of these rhetorical tactics? This is an attempt to argue the next point, which creates tacit agreement on the first point. I almost fell for it, arguing why it can be reasonable to assume that B is linked to A, and how dishonest arguers will argue A when B is easily disputed. > > But that’s not what’s going on here. The OP’s argument, again, is that the man was “triggered” into groping. This inherently is reducing or eliminating blame from the groper. > > Then we have the argument that how a woman dresses makes her more likely to be raped. This is false. > > Finally, we have **octopus** moving the goalposts, claiming he was now just telling us how our arguing was bad. This can be shown to be false seeing as we effectively counterargued him into changing his position. > > So, whether A B and C are linked is irrelevant, as we can disprove all parts separately. That said, they are linked. They aren’t linked merely in our heads, but in actual practice–both in general, and in this specific incidence. Are you crazy? I wasn’t advocating a position when I entered this thread. I was commenting on an all too common debate tactic that is employed here. To reiterate: it’s a logical fallacy to attack the poster and not the position. You and your ideological cohorts know this but insist on persisting in that immoral behavior because you believe it has the results you desire. You all know what you are doing is dishonest but you and the rest of the intellectually dishonest gang take solace in sheer volume. So you do have that going for you. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2018, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670/120 "2018-07-29T05:20:48Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > You said A, which in my mind is inextricably linked with B. So I’m going to harangue you and inveigh against your support for B, despite the fact that you haven’t said anything about B. > > Because. Is A “he was triggered into sexual battery by seeing exposed skin”? And is B “so it’s not completely his fault, he was triggered and trapped by that sexy skin”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypocrite-pc-zealots-and-their-strawmen/818670.md?page=7)