# Hypothesis: cetaceans see humans as deities **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 18, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127 "2015-08-18T00:13:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/21 "2015-08-18T15:54:41Z")
> [@Fubaya](#): > > Are there any documented cases of orcas eating any non aquatic land animal? They’ve been documented [eating swimming deer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whale#Mammals). ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/22 "2015-08-18T16:27:46Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > You assume that orcas will just eat anything they don’t specifically know not to, and would have to know that humans, specifically, taste bad in order to avoid them. Most orcas know a few things that they want to eat (e.g. seals, fish, penguins) and will avoid anything that isn’t one of those. > [@cormac262](#): > > I’m thinking more like they couldn’t stand the “smell”. I’m sure human sweat and other stuff is not only “different” than what they’re used to, but also probably pretty “strong”. > (Tilikum, however, would have gotten used to these smells spending so much time in the tank with humans on a regular basis) Exactly. It’s not that they know how we taste. It’s just that we don’t taste / smell like anything they recognize as food. I’ve never eaten fresh-killed rhino stomach. But I bet it doesn’t smell obviously appetizing to me, despite the many tons of mammals I’ve devoured over the years. And I bet the taste is even more off-putting than the smell. Sharks tend to spit out folks wearing wetsuits. Probably because neoprene tastes awful to them. Sadly the bite wound is still pretty severe, often fatal. I think the only thing worse than being eaten by a predator is being killed by one then \*not \*eaten. Such a waste. Sort of the mirror image of the ideas in that recent long thread on hunters who say “I eat what I kill.” ---
**Author:** ![Gothic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/839c29/32.png) [@Gothic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gothic)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/23 "2015-08-18T16:38:14Z")
Everything living is a potential food source for an Orca. They don’t attack us because we are vengeful gods? ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/24 "2015-08-18T16:48:12Z")
> [@cormac262](#): > > I’m thinking more like they couldn’t stand the “smell”. I’m sure human sweat and other stuff is not only “different” than what they’re used to, but also probably pretty “strong”. > (Tilikum, however, would have gotten used to these smells spending so much time in the tank with humans on a regular basis) As noted upthread, they’ve been known to eat other terrestrial mammals that are rarely found in the water. So why not monkeys? ---
**Author:** ![Master\_Wang-Ka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/master_wang-ka/32/3325_2.png) [@Master\_Wang-Ka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Master_Wang-Ka)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/25 "2015-08-18T17:50:51Z")
I wouldn’t think much of a “deity” who couldn’t swim. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/26 "2015-08-18T18:18:12Z")
> [@Master\_Wang-Ka](#): > > I wouldn’t think much of a “deity” who couldn’t swim. Two billion of your fellow humans disagree with you. In fact, conveying oneself across water by means other than swimming is viewed as PROOF of supernatural ability. If humans thinking walking on water is so great, I can understand cetaceans thinking boats are pretty impressive. In fact, they’re pretty clever to put that together. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/27 "2015-08-18T18:35:42Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Moreover, if you check Wikipedia, orcas will eat any other mammals, including deer, moose, elk, horse, bear, and all marine mammals. It’s awfully suspicious, and lucky, that we, of all animals, just happen to have a bad flavor. I just noticed this. Maybe I’m blind but I don’t see anything about moose, elk, horse or bears on the wiki page. I did find a site that says a certain group of orcas in the NE Pacific eat terrestrial mammals such as otters and the rare deer. The evidence is listed as some orcas seen eating a deer carcass in 1961, some orcas circling a rock with two deer on it and a lighthouse keeper pulling a swimming deer out of the water as it had orcas following it. So no real proof but it’s plausible. They also have a photo of a deer in the ocean with a hole in its side. It might or might not have been from an orca. If it was, they didn’t eat it so maybe that deer was a deity too. There was also one instance of people witnessing a moose being killed. Apparently, this group of orcas diverged from other orcas and some people think it should be a distinct species. One theory is that they’re not really eating them so much as juveniles are attacking them for practice. > **[Oh Deer! A rare meal for mammal-hunting killer whales?](https://themarinedetective.com/2013/03/02/oh-deer-a-rare-meal-for-mammal-eating-killer-whales/)** > > This is not a tall tale. If anything it is a short tail as in – deer tail. First an orientation on Killer Whale (Orcinus orca) diet and how prey specialization has shaped distinct cultures ov… So, I don’t see evidence of them eating elk, horse or bear, but see one case of a moose and 3-4 possible cases of deer all done by a small group of orcas. I don’t know that we can say orcas eat other terrestrial mammals routinely when all we have are one small group that killed a moose, ate a deer carcass, and checked out a couple other deer. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/28 "2015-08-18T20:16:13Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > To know this, they would have to have either tasted monkey meat in the past, or have received reviews from other cetaceans that had done so. Given the rarity with which humans (or any other kind of monkey) are eaten by cetaceans, I think this is unlikely. Those aren’t the only possibilities - we may _lack_ the smell or flavour they desire - or we might fail to qualify as food in some other way (sonar profile or something) ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/29 "2015-08-18T21:37:28Z")
Residual soap, deodorant, etc may be off-putting? ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/30 "2015-08-18T21:42:51Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Could be, but I would think the savagery of past human hunting and near extinction of some species would have left a pretty significant mark if any cetacean cultures (and perhaps oral history) actually exist. > > Considering the damage we did, it seems less likely to me that we would be dismissed as some sort of curiosity, like whales are for most humans. In short, humans have had a much larger (and much more devastating) effect on whale history than the reverse. David Brin, in Startide Rising, from his fictional \*Uplift \*series, offered that cetaceans gave us a pass, 'cuz we proved we were higher up the food chain. Toward the end of the book, a rogue dolphin crewmember (with Orca genes spliced in) invoked “food chain” as his justification for hunting (to eat) his dolphin crewmate. That crewmate scoffed at that (“old religion”) justification. ---
**Author:** ![G0sp3l](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c68b51/32.png) [@G0sp3l](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/G0sp3l)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/31 "2015-08-18T23:17:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > They’ve been documented [eating swimming deer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whale#Mammals). That same article talks about a pod making a damned good try at taking a human. Doesn’t say say they were going to EAT him, though. Maybe they planned on batting him around like a beach ball and drowning him. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/32 "2015-08-19T01:01:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Could be, but I would think the savagery of past human hunting and near extinction of some species would have left a pretty significant mark if any cetacean cultures (and perhaps oral history) actually exist. > > Considering the damage we did, it seems less likely to me that we would be dismissed as some sort of curiosity, like whales are for most humans. In short, humans have had a much larger (and much more devastating) effect on whale history than the reverse. Mostly, humans have gone after other whales, the kind of whales that orcas like to eat. In fact one pod took to [notifying humans of the presence of huntable whales](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whales_of_Eden,_Australia), so that they’d get their share. It’s entirely possible that word has gotten around. Although perhaps [word isn’t the correct word](http://news.sciencemag.org/biology/2015/03/menopausal-killer-whales-are-family-leaders). It’s more likely that, like monkeys, younger orcas learn from the behavior of older orcas. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > An interesting hypothesis. Perhaps we can get them to tithe. I think the Eden orcas (link above) kind of did. In a way. ---
**Author:** ![Fubaya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@Fubaya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fubaya)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/33 "2015-08-19T02:07:54Z")
I’ve had time to look a little more and I can find no more evidence of Orcas eating deer or moose other than repetition of what I found earlier, and no evidence they’ve ever eaten elk, horse, bear, or any other terrestrial mammal, although I’d like to see an orca vs bear fight. What I have found is that orcas are notoriously picky eaters. There are 10 different ecotypes of orcas and all 10 eat certain things. 9 of them wouldn’t be caught dead eating a deer or a human or any other land mammal. Only North Pacific Transient (Biggs) orcas have been thought to eat deer and are also the type from the story of the kid posted by Grotonian. Since Transients swim silently close to shore searching for prey, it’s not unlikely that they’d attack something that wasn’t prey on occasion. The evidence that they actually eat deer is still very scant. I don’t think the two cases of orcas checking out deer count, so in over 50 years, there’s only two pieces of evidence that they have eaten a land mammal, the deer carcass in 1961 and the moose killed some time later. That’s not much to go on. Perhaps they think everything on land is a deity? ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/34 "2015-08-19T03:51:28Z")
> [@G0sp3l](#): > > That same thiarticle talks about a pod making a damned good try at taking a human. Doesn’t say say they were going to EAT him, though. > > Maybe they planned on batting him around like a beach ball and drowning him. Or raping him. I don’t know if orcas do that, but bottlenose dolphins like to [rub their junk on each other](http://https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZffLgEKOq58) and they’ve been known to do it to humans, too. (Link is not really NSFW, but does show dolphin dongs, so…) > [@JcWoman](#): > > Scientists have recently found that dolphins use specific whistles and pops to call or identify each other, very much like we use names. If orcas do the same thing, that’s an indication of language skills that we just haven’t become aware of. > > But also, I disagree with the need for oral traditions to have religion. It’s just the way WE do things, not necessarily mandatory for all living species. Stepping into what some may call science fiction for a moment, suppose that a species communicates telepathically. We would never pick up on that because we don’t communicate that way, and would just go on arrogantly thinking they were a dumb species. But can a cetacean take the elements of a song, rearrange them into a unique sentence, and that sentence be understood by another cetacean? That, IIRC, is how Steven Pinker defines language: a coherent symbolic system that allows for the production and comprehension of unique utterances. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/35 "2015-08-19T04:00:32Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Maybe. Alternatively, the cetacean consensus on human beings might be _“It’s great how they’re able to learn simple tricks and make themselves useful. You know, I sometimes wonder if humans might even have some limited form of intelligence.”_ \*“They can’t swim for shit and some of the females smell like they sprayed themselves with puke” \* ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/36 "2015-08-19T05:55:21Z")
> [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](#): > > Residual soap, deodorant, etc may be off-putting? That may explain why humans aren’t killed on the west coast or northeast, but how do you explain the southeast and Gulf Coast? Are you honestly suggesting that Floridians are “too clean to eat”? I realize this thread is rather light-hearted, but there is no reason to insult the intelligence of those of us who are taking it semi-seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/37 "2015-08-19T06:06:11Z")
This article recounts interviews with Eskimos, who say orcas eat “whatever they can catch.” > **[What do killer whales eat in the Arctic?](https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/01/120129232818.htm)** > > Killer whales are the top marine predator. The increase in hunting territories available to killer whales in the Arctic due to climate change and melting sea ice could seriously affect the marine ecosystem balance. New research has combined... But there’s a better source that says orcas eat a lot of terrestrial mammals in Northern Europe. I’ll look for it. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/38 "2015-08-19T07:19:17Z")
Add polar bears to the list: > **[What Do Killer Whales Eat? | A Brief Overview](https://www.whalefacts.org/what-do-killer-whales-eat/)** > > The killer whale is considered an apex predator (able to hunt without fear of being hunted themselves) and is the largest known marine mammal to attack and consume other mammals. These dolphins (killer whales are (Although it says polar bear has been found in an orca stomach, not specifically that the bear was prey. But I don’t think dying bears go swimming, so MY conjecture is that it was prey.) ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/39 "2015-08-19T11:20:04Z")
Would that mean that Seaworld is like Dante’s Inferno? ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127/40 "2015-08-19T17:58:59Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Add polar bears to the list: > > [What Do Killer Whales Eat? | A Brief Overview | Whale Facts](http://www.whalefacts.org/what-do-killer-whales-eat/) > > (Although it says polar bear has been found in an orca stomach, not specifically that the bear was prey. But I don’t think dying bears go swimming, so MY conjecture is that it was prey.) Maybe opportunistic scavenging? Bear dies on ice floe, orca is swimming by just as bear corpse is knocked into water, orca chomps reflexively? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothesis-cetaceans-see-humans-as-deities/728127.md?page=3)