# Hypothetical: a shot given to a pregnant mother that ensures a heterosexual child. Do you do it? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 1, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075 "2012-08-01T17:23:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/41 "2012-08-01T18:51:22Z")
Honestly, I’d be more impressed if the OP considered reducing the suffering of half the planet by having all girls be born boys. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/42 "2012-08-01T18:52:58Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Easy? That’s clearly a point that can be debated (and has been, in later posts), although I’d argue that life isn’t usually easy for anyone. > > Fulfilling? What the heck? Since when did being gay take fulfillment out of one’s life? I don’t know how you define it, but mine doesn’t have a lot to do with the reactions of people around me, no matter how bigoted. I’m glad you asked this. It seems to me, that while I would love my gay child as much as I might love a heterosexual one, that heterosexuality does allow for a fuller experience for both men and women. It is clear that men and women were made to come together. The anatomy speaks to that as does the fact that that is who the species is carried on. It seems obvious that being able to experience that equates to the participant having a fuller male or fuller female experience. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/43 "2012-08-01T18:54:26Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I’m glad you asked this. It seems to me, that while I would love my gay child as much as I might love a heterosexual one, that heterosexuality does allow for a fuller experience for both men and women. It is clear that men and women were made to come together. The anatomy speaks to that as does the fact that that is who the species is carried on. It seems obvious that being able to experience that equates to the participant having a fuller male or fuller female experience. Troll? Male Bovine Manure? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/44 "2012-08-01T18:54:57Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So, there exists a shot given to the mother, or a pill, and it magically ensures that the child will develop into a heterosexual being. There are zero side effects to either mother or child. The child about to be born is _yours_. This is a crucial point. I’m talking about a micro view—you and your about to be born child. Do you administer the shot/pill? Why or why not? Wait, _ **MAGIC** _ exist in this hypothetical? Fuck that, I’m going for the spell that conjures your offspring out of thin air and avoids all that painful and dangerous childbearing crap. ETA: Straight, man. ETAA: Errr, I’m a man, and I’m straight, man. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/45 "2012-08-01T18:55:04Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’d never do it, I’m not going to cater to the homophobes. And I’d try to have it outlawed; although I expect that it would instead become mandatory many places. And even where illegal I expect many doctors who are “good Christians” would inject the mother without telling her what they were doing. I seems that your personal beliefs are more important than the quality of your child’s life. How is that any different from the point of view of some Christian Scientists? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/46 "2012-08-01T18:55:06Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Given the following as axiomatic: > > 1: We live in a world where mouth-breathing idiots persecute and discriminate against gays, always unjustly and sometimes violently, and occasionally fatally. > > 2: Being gay is neither better nor worse than being straight. > > Then you are a liar and/or a sadist if you intentionally decide to subject your child to easily preventable suffering. Yeah, it’s really easy to decide to stand on principle about tolerance and acceptance and harmony when you’re not the one who has to suffer the consequences. > > Edited to add: but I’d really rather line up the bigoted mouth-breathing idiots against the wall, so we wouldn’t need to have conversations like this. The same argument could be used if the shot made “black” kids “white”. I don’t think we’re liars or sadists just because we would prefer not to fundamentally change them just to make them more “normal” or “accepted” in society. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/47 "2012-08-01T18:55:30Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I can understand that. But I thinks it’s safe to say that your child having as happy and fulfilling a life as possible is pretty important. So, it seems you believe that those two things would be equal whether he/she was heterosexual or gay. Is that right? Yes, their happiness is very important, so why would I mess around with a potential source of happiness (ie, who they are attracted to)? As to your question - I do not think that one’s orientation necessitates a life of misery. There are many components to a miserable life - it’s a complex thing - and what makes one person miserable would not make another. Orientation, whether straight or gay, could go either way. The same could be said about many traits humans possess. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/48 "2012-08-01T18:57:13Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Troll? Male Bovine Manure? An actual réponse would be more helpful. Of course, no one is forcing you to post in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/49 "2012-08-01T18:57:20Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > There’s still a lot of anti-semitism in the world. Should Jewish parents raise their children as Christians (or Muslims if they live in a predominantly Islamic country) for the good of their child? Should I risk my child’s happiness and possibly life to make them conform to my religion? That would be completely sociopathic. Is this a whoosh? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/50 "2012-08-01T18:59:00Z")
For the OP’s question- I would be against the pill (for my wife), because it would be fundamentally changing something about the child that is not a handicap or even a negative trait. If your shot could make “black” kids “white”, then it might conceivably reduce the chance of my future child being a victim of bigotry. But I still wouldn’t do it. Why would it be any different for gay vs straight? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/51 "2012-08-01T19:00:24Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Wait, _ **MAGIC** _ exist in this hypothetical? Fuck that, I’m going for the spell that conjures your offspring out of thin air and avoids all that painful and dangerous childbearing crap. > > ETA: Straight, man. > > ETAA: Errr, I’m a man, and I’m straight, man. So, no thoughts on what was actually presented? Noted. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/52 "2012-08-01T19:02:02Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > However, there is nothing wrong with being gay, or black, or a short guy…however, if I was told my son would only be 5’ 2" tall and I could have a shot to make him 6’? HELL YEA! To sit there and say “There is nothing wrong with being a short guy. I am not going to cater to discrimination” and doom your son to being short would be the height of cruelty. Out of curiosity, what if you had to choose: A) 5’2" and straight or B) 6’ and gay ? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/53 "2012-08-01T19:02:14Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > Troll? Male Bovine Manure? Don’t accuse other posters of trolling in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/54 "2012-08-01T19:03:18Z")
If you don’t care either way what orientation your kids are personally, having them guaranteed straight has some benefits: - Will face less bigotry (though this is a declining factor, it is still not gone) - Statistically more likely to have kids themselves - yay grandchildren! Has some drawbacks as well: - Fighting the hypothetical - no side effects? How can we be sure? - Encourages bigots everywhere It is unlike issues such as ethnic and religous bigotry, because the presumption is that the parent themselves doesn’t care either way what orientation their kids are. Many if not most people care to an extent about perpetuating their ethnicity or religion in a new generation. That said, seems to me the benefits outweigh the drawbacks, assuming we can rely on the hypothetical (and can know this for a fact), since I can’t think of any benefits to the kid him or herself from being gay over being straight. The second point in both sections are benefits to others - to myself (grandkids!) or to society at large (discouraging bigotry!). ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/55 "2012-08-01T19:05:07Z")
Straight guy, son & daughter in their 20’s. I would not want to do this but would discuss it with the mother. My reason for not wanting to do this is (a) sexual preference is not a choice I get to make for anybody else on the planet and (b) that’s pretty much it, actually. Whether it’s scientifically enforcing the gene that controls sexual preference or magically mandating a psychological change towards heterosexuality, it doesn’t matter whether I do it in vitro, when the child is seven years old, or an adult: I don’t get to do that. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/56 "2012-08-01T19:05:38Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > An actual réponse would be more helpful. Of course, no one is forcing you to post in this thread. You know, when I first joined SD, I was upset at the people who mocked instead of argued back in some instances. I even asked them why they did this and they tended to respond that some statements only just deserved to be mocked. I didn’t understand that at the time. However, I grew to. Your statement was one of them. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/57 "2012-08-01T19:05:40Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Yes, their happiness is very important, so why would I mess around with a potential source of happiness (ie, who they are attracted to)? But their happiness would simply be tied to, in part, being attracted to people of the opposite sex. It’s not as if their homosexuality was extinguished, with something lost, they’d just gestate and develop into heterosexuals. > [@Meatros](#): > > As to your question - I do not think that one’s orientation necessitates a life of misery. There are many components to a miserable life - it’s a complex thing - and what makes one person miserable would not make another. Orientation, whether straight or gay, could go either way. The same could be said about many traits humans possess. I agree with this last part wholeheartedly. But, with all things remaining equal, why wouldn’t you choose to free your child of one area of potential unhappiness and afford him/her the possibility to experience having a child and living in a mother/father/daughter relationship. There’s no inherent downside to that, is there? ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/58 "2012-08-01T19:06:47Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > Out of curiosity, what if you had to choose: > A) 5’2" and straight > or > B) 6’ and gay > ? 6’ and Gay. Definitely. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/59 "2012-08-01T19:07:34Z")
As a poll, this thread will find its new home in IMHO. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/60 "2012-08-01T19:11:01Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > If it helps, let’s say that you are a single mother who went to a sperm bank. The decision is 100% yours. Then I’d go for the injection. My motives are purely Darwinian: I would want my genes to propagate and the best chance of that would be to ensure that my offspring are heterosexual. There’s no guarantee of that - I only have to look in the mirror - and I know that homosexuals can and do have children, but I’d want to maximise my chances. I have, of course, spotted the OP’s trap: the flip side is that if homosexuality were shown to be caused by a particular balance of chemicals before or during pregnancy, howsoever caused, should men and women try to avoid that balance? (c.f. smoking, drinking, folic acid, temperature difference & crocodiles, etc.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075.md?page=4)