# Hypothetical: a shot given to a pregnant mother that ensures a heterosexual child. Do you do it? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 1, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075 "2012-08-01T17:23:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/61 "2012-08-01T19:12:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > For the OP’s question- I would be against the pill (for my wife), because it would be fundamentally changing something about the child that is not a handicap or even a negative trait. No. As I mentioned in a previous response, it’s not “undoing” homosexuality, it’s simply ensuring that your child would develop, normally, into someone attracted to the opposite sex and not his/her own. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > FIf your shot could make “black” kids “white”, then it might conceivably reduce the chance of my future child being a victim of bigotry. But I still wouldn’t do it. Why would it be any different for gay vs straight? It appears to me, from both general observation of the media and what I’ve heard from people on these boards and elsewhere, that being gay presents one with problems that heterosexuals do not encounter. Even to the extent of some bigoted asshole beating them up or killing them. That seems to be quite a downside. If I could save my kid from that—without losing anything—I’d feel obligated to. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/62 "2012-08-01T19:15:54Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The same argument could be used if the shot made “black” kids “white”. I don’t think we’re liars or sadists just because we would prefer not to fundamentally change them just to make them more “normal” or “accepted” in society. But of course you are. “Son, it’s important to my principles that you get to experience being a persecuted minority, though I myself will never be subject to that.” Sort of a “you go first” brand of skydiving there, and you’re doing it to a CHILD. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/63 "2012-08-01T19:17:21Z")
> [@BlinkingDuck](#): > > You know, when I first joined SD, I was upset at the people who mocked instead of argued back in some instances. I even asked them why they did this and they tended to respond that some statements only just deserved to be mocked. > > I didn’t understand that at the time. However, I grew to. Your statement was one of them. So, you grew to become that which you hated. Thanks for sharing. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/64 "2012-08-01T19:17:51Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But their happiness would simply be tied to, in part, being attracted to people of the opposite sex. It’s not as if their homosexuality was extinguished, with something lost, they’d just gestate and develop into heterosexuals. Suppose, for a second, that I administer the shot. They grow up heterosexual and alone and very miserable because they cannot find a mate. Had I left things be, on the other hand, they would have grown up and found a mate and had a lot of happiness. (for these suppositions, it’s part of my child’s character to _want a mate_, obviously) I cannot say how likely either scenario is and therefore I would not want to monkey around with it. > [@magellan01](#): > > I agree with this last part wholeheartedly. But, with all things remaining equal, why wouldn’t you choose to free your child of one area of potential unhappiness and afford him/her the possibility to experience having a child and living in a mother/father/daughter relationship. There’s no inherent downside to that, is there? This ‘potential unhappiness’ appears to be entirely subjective, that’s why. You seem to think that, on balance, it would lead to more unhappiness than not, and I do not agree with that. As to having a child, homosexuals can still do that - as to having a mother/father/daughter/whatever relationship, again those are rather subjective. I’m sure there are many people out there who wished not to have that particular dynamic because of one thing or another (say the father was an abusive alcoholic). In the end, the proposition seems entirely arbitrary to me and it could make me directly responsible for my child’s misery. To me the question is like ‘if you had a shot that would give your child blond hair, would you do it?’. The reason I see it this way is because the ‘shot’ would not be a guarantee of any further success, happiness, etc, than not taking the shot. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/65 "2012-08-01T19:21:12Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > But of course you are. “Son, it’s important to my principles that you get to experience being a persecuted minority, though I myself will never be subject to that.” > > Sort of a “you go first” brand of skydiving there, and you’re doing it to a CHILD. Isn’t this the same sort of mentality that leads to [female children getting aborted in China](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-selective_abortion)? ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/66 "2012-08-01T19:22:55Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Isn’t this the same sort of mentality that leads to [female children getting aborted in China](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-selective_abortion)? No, it isn’t. Next question. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/67 "2012-08-01T19:23:08Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Then I’d go for the injection. My motives are purely Darwinian: I would want my genes to propagate and the best chance of that would be to ensure that my offspring are heterosexual. There’s no guarantee of that - I only have to look in the mirror - and I know that homosexuals can and do have children, but I’d want to maximise my chances. > > I have, of course, spotted the OP’s trap: the flip side is that if homosexuality were shown to be caused by a particular balance of chemicals before or during pregnancy, howsoever caused, should men and women try to avoid that balance? (c.f. smoking, drinking, folic acid, temperature difference & crocodiles, etc.) I assure you, in all honesty, that I have no interest in what you outline. Zero. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/68 "2012-08-01T19:24:36Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Why would you prefer a gay son or daughter? Pro: No unwanted pregnancy Con: the few remaining bigots might have a problem with it. Also, I have no interest in my genes moving on for generations. If it happens fine, if not, that’s fine too. I wouldn’t \*\*\*do \*\*\*anything to make them gay, but I sure wouldn’t be disappointed if they were. ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/69 "2012-08-01T19:28:01Z")
If that shot existed and you didn’t take it you’d be dooming your child to a life of loneliness. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/70 "2012-08-01T19:28:45Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > No, it isn’t. Next question. Because you assert it isn’t? Can you give any reasoning behind why it isn’t? ---
**Author:** ![Airk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de053/32.png) [@Airk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airk)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/71 "2012-08-01T19:29:25Z")
No? What possible reason could there be to do this? It’s not my problem to make sure the human race remains ‘genetically viable’ or some sort of ridiculous fearmongering. I’ll be dead, what do I care? 😛 Straight male. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/72 "2012-08-01T19:30:42Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Suppose, for a second, that I administer the shot. They grow up heterosexual and alone and very miserable because they cannot find a mate. Had I left things be, on the other hand, they would have grown up and found a mate and had a lot of happiness. > > (for these suppositions, it’s part of my child’s character to _want a mate_, obviously) > > I cannot say how likely either scenario is and therefore I would not want to monkey around with it. So, you simply want to be responsible for a potentially negative outcome. That’s understandable. But, once I give you the option, and if your child turns out to be gay, and that makes his life very difficult and h=unhappy, you have to accept the responsibility for that. Right? > [@Meatros](#): > > This ‘potential unhappiness’ appears to be entirely subjective, that’s why. You seem to think that, on balance, it would lead to more unhappiness than not, and I do not agree with that. > > As to having a child, homosexuals can still do that - as to having a mother/father/daughter/whatever relationship, again those are rather subjective. I’m sure there are many people out there who wished not to have that particular dynamic because of one thing or another (say the father was an abusive alcoholic). > > In the end, the proposition seems entirely arbitrary to me and it could make me directly responsible for my child’s misery. To me the question is like ‘if you had a shot that would give your child blond hair, would you do it?’. The reason I see it this way is because the ‘shot’ would not be a guarantee of any further success, happiness, etc, than not taking the shot. But it would remove what, I think most people would acknowledge, is something that could cause him great unhappiness. And it’s not as if “anything may cause him happiness”, it’s a thing that we _know_ to be a great potential source of unhappiness. Or are you of the mind that gay kids are no longer subject to ridicule, bigotry, bullying, etc? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/73 "2012-08-01T19:33:52Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Pro: No unwanted pregnancy > > Con: the few remaining bigots might have a problem with it. > Also, I have no interest in my genes moving on for generations. If it happens fine, if not, that’s fine too. > > I wouldn’t \*\*\*do \*\*\*anything to make them gay, but I sure wouldn’t be disappointed if they were. You, too, seem to answer more based on how it affects you. Shouldn’t the primary concern be the affect it has on your child? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/74 "2012-08-01T19:34:54Z")
> [@Airk](#): > > No? What possible reason could there be to do this? It’s not my problem to make sure the human race remains ‘genetically viable’ or some sort of ridiculous fearmongering. I’ll be dead, what do I care? 😛 > > Straight male. do you, or would you care, about the happiness of your child? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/75 "2012-08-01T19:37:10Z")
Well one thing. A straight person is going to have about a 10 times larger dating pool than gay person. And given that straight people aren’t exactly complaining of having too many acceptable choices… So, if nothing else a gay person is going to have a harder time finding an acceptable mate or “settle” more than a straight person would. Statistically speaking. And I am not saying that issue is enough to warrant the shot or not. Just saying that hasn’t been brought up yet. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/76 "2012-08-01T19:37:47Z")
> [@Meatros](#): > > Because you assert it isn’t? > > Can you give any reasoning behind why it isn’t? You gave no reasoning for your assertion, and now you expect it from me? Are you joking? ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/77 "2012-08-01T19:45:07Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So, you simply want to be responsible for a potentially negative outcome. That’s understandable. But, once I give you the option, and if your child turns out to be gay, and that makes his life very difficult and h=unhappy, you have to accept the responsibility for that. Right? ? You are suggesting that it’s an actual potentially negative outcome - this is your presupposition. I do not share it to the degree you seem to. It seems arbitrary to me. My child’s hair turning gray in his or her twenties could also lead to a potentially negative outcome - yet I wouldn’t adjust those genes either. My child could have moles they do not like, they could have a facial structure that displeases them. Ultimately it’s not up to me to make my child happy with their life - it’s up to them. I can certainly contribute to their unhappiness though. They could want a relationship with me, for instance, and I could turn it away because of some arbitrary trait they possess. Also, if my child turns out to be gay, it would all depend on **why he was miserable** about it as to whether it was my responsibility or not. If I’m upset with him for being gay, then **yes it’s my responsibility**. Otherwise, I’m not seeing it. As I said earlier, people are miserable for all sorts of reasons. People are bullied for all sorts of reasons. I’m not a soothsayer, so I cannot make a prediction that just because my child is X that means he will be miserable. > [@magellan01](#): > > But it would remove what, I think most people would acknowledge, is something that could cause him great unhappiness. And it’s not as if “anything may cause him happiness”, it’s a thing that we _know_ to be a great potential source of unhappiness. Or are you of the mind that gay kids are no longer subject to ridicule, bigotry, bullying, etc? So ‘most people’ acknowledge that, I do not - I just don’t see it. To me it’s like asking me if I would inject a shot to make them male/female/of a certain race/etc. There are always going to be people out there who are bigots towards certain traits - why should I be concerned with making those people happy? My concentration should be on my child. Their orientation has no bearing on their happiness, their attitude toward their orientation does and that’s beyond the control of a shot. ---
**Author:** ![Meatros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Meatros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meatros)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/78 "2012-08-01T19:48:57Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > You gave no reasoning for your assertion, and now you expect it from me? Are you joking? My reasoning was, obviously, that some people do have abortions because their children are female. I gave [a link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex-selective_abortion#Reasons_for_sex-selective_abortion) which had this, among a few other reasons, on it: > [@](#): > > Sexual discrimination > > The role of women in nations that are prone to sex-selection abortion is to stay home, do house chores, and raise children. She is mutely banned to work in the society, pressured by family and discouraged from the society. Lower salary, working in temporary or non-regular jobs, in lower status in working position, faced with thick harsh glass-walls and glass ceiling are all evidence that their society is not so keen towards women on top. These family usually live with their elders and the older generations considers jumping in the business sector overrated for women. In these societies, mothers are viewed to sacrifice herself into assisting her husband and raising children, sparing no time for self-development. All in all, in cultures that practice sex-selective abortion, women are prone to sexual discrimination and are viewed below status to men. Which seems to be parallel with what you are saying about homosexuals. So now can you please answer my question as to why your mentality does not justify abortions for this reason? If it’s because they are ‘abortions’ then would you be in favor of these countries being able to take shots to ensure their children were male? Should those countries do so if **they love their children**? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/79 "2012-08-01T19:49:11Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > You, too, seem to answer more based on how it affects you. Shouldn’t the primary concern be the affect it has on your child? Obviously, an unwanted pregnancy effects my child more than it effects me. Being gay, not sure how that effects my child.. maybe less choice for life partners? Perhaps I should yearn for a bisexual child so they have the best of both worlds. The gay children/young adults I know seem perfectly happy.(at least as happy as their non-gay contemporaries). ---
**Author:** ![DigitalC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ebca7d/32.png) [@DigitalC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DigitalC)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/80 "2012-08-01T19:51:24Z")
More like “no choice of life partners” really. You are talking about a society were there is an anti gay vaccine, i assume everything else would be equal. Gays would be virtually extinct. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075.md?page=5)