# Hypothetical: a shot given to a pregnant mother that ensures a heterosexual child. Do you do it? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 1, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075 "2012-08-01T17:23:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/121 "2012-08-02T00:44:40Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Im glad you think so, as it means that you have a good life, but you simply do not and cannot know that to be a fact. Based on this statement the entire hypothetical is a waste of time because we simply do not and cannot know if life would be better or worse for a gay or straight version of whoever our child was going to be. That said the entire thread is clearly a way for you to accuse people of not keeping their childs best interests at heart if we do not choose your wonder shot which is why I’m glad it will never exist. If we get to the point of custom designing our progeny I really hope that we work on health before sex or sexual orientation but given the history of humankind that’s probably a pipe dream. In case its not clear I would not accept the shot. I’m female and have two straight children in their early 20’s. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/122 "2012-08-02T00:51:43Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > As to the question of being a victim of violence, at least as far as it pertains to a hypothetical daughter, have you considered the fact that, as a lesbian, she would be drastically _less_ likely to suffer violence at the hands of her spouse? Domestic abuse isn’t entirely unknown in lesbian relationships, but it’s much, much less common than it is in hetero relationships. Cite? For the original question, I see it in terms of “Would you give a shot to drastically reduce your child’s risk of infertility”, so of course I would. Thats not to mention I would be maximising the amount of people who could satisfy them. It is more debateable whether it is better to be straight or predominantly-straight bisexual. Bisexual people can take enjoyment in more things and it is more than possibly unethical to delibrately limit someones potential pleasure. ---
**Author:** ![elfkin477](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a9a28c/32.png) [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/123 "2012-08-02T01:20:09Z")
I don’t know, maybe. As much as I love my gay & lesbian friends, there’s no denying that our society ensures that life isn’t as easy for them as it could be if they were like the majority. I’d have to think hard about a shot that would keep said hypothetical child from being left-handed like me too for the same reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/124 "2012-08-02T01:32:10Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This is a crucial point. I’m talking about a micro view—you and your about to be born child. Do you administer the shot/pill? Why or why not? No, because frankly I don’t care. I want a healthy child, I don’t care whether it’s male, female, straight, gay, left handed, right handed, blue eyed, brown eyed… sexual orientation is so far down the list of what I think would be important it just doesn’t register. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/125 "2012-08-02T01:33:32Z")
Well, I see the discussion has moved pretty far down the road, so I’ll just respond with a couple brief points and leave the discussion for others to carry on. > [@magellan01](#): > > Okay, you don’t care about the bigot’s happiness. Sure. You make it sound like there’s some reason I should. > [@](#): > > But how about your child’s? Do you expect that he/she would have an equally easy and fulfilling life either way? I’m pretty sure I already told you. I have known numerous gay people and in my experience I see no fundamental difference in their relative happiness, success or sense of fulfillment EXCEPT perhaps regarding their exposure to bigotry. Seems to make sense to me, however that the problem does not lie with their sexual orientation, but with other people’s entirely unwarranted reaction to it. > [@](#): > > You doubt a pill/shot with no side effects? What part of “magical” don’t you understand? 🙂 Well, I guess I don’t understand why, if you are proposing magic pills anyway, you don’t just propose one that eliminates bigotry. Seems like it would be of considerably greater benefit. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/126 "2012-08-02T01:38:26Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Imagine we live 100 years in the future and anti-gay prejudice has totally and completely vanished… gay marriage is legal, gay adoption is legal, there’s been a gay president, gayness is just utterly “normal” in all ways, in all countries in the world (yeah, I know, I wish). > > Then what would your answer be? > I think there’s something interestingly paradoxical about this. In the current cultural climate we live in, I think there’s a reasonable case along the lines of “I don’t see anything wrong with being gay, but at the same time I wouldn’t want my child to be the victim of bullying and prejudice… suicide rates are still sky high among gay teenagers, etc. So I would take the shot”. But at the same time, saying that you would take the shot feels an awful lot like saying that you would love a straight child more than a gay child, and thus value straights higher than gays, so it’s tempting to not take the shot just because taking it is “wrong”. > > On the other hand, if all the prejudice was truly gone, there would no longer be that “he will be bullied” factor pushing you towards getting the shot, so it would seem that the only reasonable answer then would be not to get the shot. But on the other hand, if prejudice was truly gone, and there wasn’t this big political/cultural issue hanging around being the elephant in the room, people might not find it objectionable to make the same kind of minor logistical judgments you might make if there was a similar shot that ensured that your child was right-handed. Sure it’s not a big deal, and it’s not like I value right-handed people over left-handed people, but there are various minor situations in which it’s advantageous to be right-handed as opposed to left-handed. Similarly, in this hypothetical future, it’s really not a big deal if you’re gay or straight, but there are minor logistical reasons why being straight might be easier (larger mate selection, can have natural-born offspring with your loved one), so you might make that choice without having to worry about what signal it was sending or what statement it was making. (Of course, that assumes that you’d be willing to make even minor choices of that sort… there’s an interesting debate about whether any sort of prenatal meddling at all is a Bad Idea, and a response of “of course I wouldn’t take that pill, I wouldn’t do anything to change my unborn child at all, for the worse or the better” is certainly a reasonable and consistent one.) Excellent post. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/127 "2012-08-02T01:50:25Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > My motivation isn’t sucking up to monsters. Not an evil god, and not homophobic bigots. Uh, not everything is about you. What if the shot could make your child immune to cancer? Would you give him that shot? How about the other vaccinations? Yet, you refuse to stack the odds in favor of your child have a happier life by “immunizing” them to a thing that is as real as a physical illness: the ridicule, bigotry and bullying that gay kids often are victim to. Or are you of the mind that those things are inconsequential? Something else? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/128 "2012-08-02T01:51:41Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > The hypothetical anti-gay shot without side effects has been criticized for being magically unrealistic. A much more plausible development would be the development of a prenatal test for a child’s being gay or likely to be gay. Assuming that gayness is in fact determined before birth by genetic or other factors, such a development is not at all impossible. Then what happens? > > It may be instructive to consider the example of prenatal testing for Downs’ Syndrome. It is estimated (Wikipedia cites a number of studies) that something like 90% of Downs’ pregnancies are now aborted in the US and UK. If a prenatal gay test existed, would there be a similar decline in the numbers of gay children born? > > Downs Syndrome is a seriously disabling and life-limiting condition; being gay is neither of those things and I am in no way implying any equation between the two. The question is, what would be the result of such a test becoming available? > > I would wager that, despite our best intentions, there would be an calamitous drop in the number of gay babies born. Parents, when asked, would hem and haw and lie to pollsters, but behind closed doors would trip all over themselves to schedule the abortion. The rate might not be as high as 90%, but it would probably be way over 50%. Another great post. Very interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/129 "2012-08-02T01:52:16Z")
I have spent my whole life learning about how gay men have it harder. I would do it. But I sometimes wish my son were gay so I didn’t have to lose him to another woman. :o ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/130 "2012-08-02T01:56:04Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > Based on this statement the entire hypothetical is a waste of time because we simply do not and cannot know if life would be better or worse for a gay or straight version of whoever our child was going to be. But we do know, I think, that there is something working against gay kids that heterosexual kids have no corresponding threat. No? > [@Moonlitherial](#): > > That said the entire thread is clearly a way for you to accuse people of not keeping their childs best interests at heart if we do not choose your wonder shot which is why I’m glad it will never exist. No. It is a logical counter point, though. Is it not? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/131 "2012-08-02T01:57:31Z")
> [@Farmer\_Jane](#): > > I have spent my whole life learning about how gay men have it harder. I would do it. > > But I sometimes wish my son were gay so I didn’t have to lose him to another woman. :o I love this. Though I’m not sure using the blow job smilie was the best idea when talking about your son. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/132 "2012-08-02T02:00:08Z")
> [@elfkin477](#): > > I don’t know, maybe. As much as I love my gay & lesbian friends, there’s no denying that our society ensures that life isn’t as easy for them as it could be if they were like the majority. I’d have to think hard about a shot that would keep said hypothetical child from being left-handed like me too for the same reasons. Really? Being left-handed is problem to that extent? I had no idea. I’ll tell you the pill I want: the ambidextrous pill. That would be awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/133 "2012-08-02T02:05:37Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I love this. Though I’m not sure using the blow job smilie was the best idea when talking about your son. 😃 That’s what that is?? :smack: ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/134 "2012-08-02T02:13:57Z")
Someone promotes a bigoted stance on the Dope (anti-SSM) then says that anyone who wouldn’t make their child non gay would lessen the child’s chances of happiness because of _people like him_. I think the world would be diminished by having fewer gay persons. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/135 "2012-08-02T02:29:34Z")
I’d be upset if my child were the victim of prejudice because of his or her sexual orientation or religion or race or hair color. _But I wouldn’t think my child was at fault._ The fault would lie entirely with the bigots who are harassing my child - they’re the ones that need to be fixed. I don’t blame the victim. As for the argument that you’d just be doing your child a favor by making them straight because they’d be more likely to find a romantic partner when they grow up, you have to carry this argument to its logical next step. If that’s your concern, you give your unborn child the shot that makes them bisexual - that way you’ve maximized their chances for finding love. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/136 "2012-08-02T02:50:43Z")
If science had conclusively proven the reason for homosexuality was not genetic but entirely a product of the placental environment, then maybe yes, I would approve of the shot. If there were any ambiguity on that point, then no. It seems two very distinct propositions: (1) alter your child’s genes, or (2) alter the environment in which he or she develops as a fetus. Maybe both aspects go into a person’s innate identity, but somehow (1) seems innate-ier. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/137 "2012-08-02T03:28:54Z")
Straight male, married, no kids. No shot (though I’d _consider_ it if my wife was adamant). ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/138 "2012-08-02T03:47:09Z")
I do think there is one valid comparison between the OP’s scenario and that of race and religion: the universal desire of parents to be able to relate to their kids, and fear of their growing up. It’s already inevitable that children grow up to be strangers, to some extent, and every parent finds that threatening. A kid of a different race, religion or sexual orientation will be growing up not only into adulthood but into an inapproachable world, from the parent’s perspective. I imagine every parent harbors the desire to have their kids a bit more similar to themselves for this reason, ---
**Author:** ![listedmia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e0b2c6/32.png) [@listedmia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/listedmia)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/139 "2012-08-02T04:40:10Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > If science had conclusively proven the reason for homosexuality was not genetic but entirely a product of the placental environment, then maybe yes, I would approve of the shot. If there were any ambiguity on that point, then no. It seems two very distinct propositions: (1) alter your child’s genes, or (2) alter the environment in which he or she develops as a fetus. Maybe both aspects go into a person’s innate identity, but somehow (1) seems innate-ier. This. I’m bisexual, and I think early childhood experiences might also have had some bearing on my sexuality. What if I got this shot and it somehow didn’t work because other factors than genes determine the kid’s sexual orientation? Then I’d have a gay kid, in a world where there are less homosexuals around to work for gay rights and acceptance, and they’d have to live with the knowledge that I didn’t want them to be that way. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075/140 "2012-08-02T05:14:20Z")
Straight male. No shot, let nature take its course. Whatever sexual orientation the child might develop, I will love it, and nurture it, and find it some profitable and fulfilling role in my white-slavery biz. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-a-shot-given-to-a-pregnant-mother-that-ensures-a-heterosexual-child-do-you-do-it/630075.md?page=8)