# Hypothetical Ethical Dilemma **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 18, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-ethical-dilemma/225136 "2004-01-18T19:40:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 12:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-ethical-dilemma/225136/61 "2004-02-05T12:01:25Z")
But **RexDart** , why have this system of “rights” to start with? What’s it for? What’s it based on? ---
**Author:** ![RexDart](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b77776/32.png) [@RexDart](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RexDart)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2004, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-ethical-dilemma/225136/62 "2004-02-05T12:41:56Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > But **RexDart** , why have this system of “rights” to start with? What’s it for? What’s it based on? We’d be getting into stuff that would take me pages to explain. I have a few rough drafts started on my comprehensive philosophy, but nothing I’m willing to put up on the web just yet. Long story short, I think those rights are part of what it takes for man to survive. It’s quite similar to some Ayn Rand and Nathaniel Branden essays on the topic, except that I developed my theories independently and only discovered those writers in the last couple years, so there are some differences in how I arrived there. The American founding fathers recognized these natural-law rights as the basis of our form of government. I suppose you could sell out entirely to the John Stuart Mills of the world, but that pure utilitarian stuff doesn’t appeal to me. I like an infusion of rights theory in there. Without rights theory, man seems to become a means to an end, whereas I believe man’s liberty is an end unto itself. Man simply cannot flourish if he is constrained by utilitarian demands that he sacrifice himself continually to others. If I wanted to give a good argument on this topic, it would take me much longer than I have time available here in this last semester of law school. I’m sorry to say it, but if you actually _want_ a discussion in this topic, I won’t be able to provide it for awhile. This is the meat of my philosophy on life, and I couldn’t do it justice in a couple paragraphs. I drifted into that subject only because I felt a little under attack in this thread and wanted to clarify my moral position. If you want to hear an argument _similar_ to that I would make, pop on google and find Ayn Rand’s essays “Requiem for Man” and “The Nature of Government”, where she tackles rights theory in a way much like I would. ---
**Author:** ![Ramanujan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/51bf81/32.png) [@Ramanujan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramanujan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2004, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-ethical-dilemma/225136/63 "2004-02-06T03:24:03Z")
> [@Priceguy](#): > > Huh? You said **Ramanujan** has clearly stated he cares about his pleasure and pain, no-one else’s. It sounds like you’re with me. while i don’t have much time at the moment, i must point something out. just because your decisions are 100% selfish, and you recognize that fact, doesn’t mean you don’t care about the pleasure or pain of others. i never said nor implied that, and i’d like you to tell me where you get that simplistic assessment from. i shall try to post again tomorrow, in an attempt to better elaborate. ---
**Author:** ![Dunderman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@Dunderman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dunderman)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2004, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-ethical-dilemma/225136/64 "2004-02-13T12:54:28Z")
> [@Ramanujan](#): > > while i don’t have much time at the moment, i must point something out. > > just because your decisions are 100% selfish, and you recognize that fact, doesn’t mean you don’t care about the pleasure or pain of others. i never said nor implied that, and i’d like you to tell me where you get that simplistic assessment from. Read post 59 in this very thread. I quoted the relevant statement there. > [@](#): > > i shall try to post again tomorrow, in an attempt to better elaborate. Tried and failed? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-ethical-dilemma/225136.md?page=3)