# Hypothetical: Should the military overthrow Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 3, 2017, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874 "2017-02-03T02:09:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/61 "2017-02-04T19:54:52Z")
No, not unless Trump actually does become a dictator. If he brings back torture against the wishes of the judiciary and legislature, if he cancels elections, if he refuses to vacate the white house after losing an election, if he abolishes the bill of rights, etc. then removing him from power via force is a good idea. However even then you don’t need the military. A SWAT team would probably suffice. When the legislature in Chile called for the military to take power away from Allende in the 1970s, the military took power but didn’t give it back for 17 years. They just stayed in charge. ---
**Author:** ![Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Throatwarbler\_Mangrove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Throatwarbler_Mangrove)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/62 "2017-02-04T19:56:20Z")
Related question I heard brought up in a podcast recently. If the British parliament or courts decided to reneg on leaving the European Union, should the British army seize/arrest parliament and the PM? I presume since in theory the army answers to the queen, this could be done legally if there was royal assent. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/63 "2017-02-04T19:58:21Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I know. Her tweet was really just an introduction, and as irrelevant to the hypothetical as the reality that [the military would almost certainly oppose a coup against Trump](http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2017/02/01/navy-special-forces-flew-trump-flag-convoy/97369810/). I remember when Obama was elected in 2009, some people were calling for a military coup against him too. I even read an editorial in the local paper calling for a military coup. Generally speaking, veterans vote for the GOP candidate about 60-40. Which means 40% of the military supports the democrat (Navy seals may be mostly all white men, but there are a lot of minorities and women in the military). Of the 60% who support the GOP, the vast majority do not want to overthrow our government and establish a right wing autocracy. I’d wager only about 15% of the military (and law enforcement) supports something like that, the other 85% would oppose them. And of the 15% who would like to live in a right wing autocracy, I’m guessing even among them many wouldn’t actually engage in a military coup to support one. But I’ve been wrong before. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/64 "2017-02-04T19:59:07Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The point behind a Fordow strike would be to destroy the underground facility, not sprinkle the area above / around it with radioactive material. The world had decades of underground nuclear tests precisely because it was a good way to contain the radioactive danger. A nuclear-warhead-equipped bunker buster, sort of like the DoE worked on in the early 2000’s ([see here](https://www.nap.edu/read/11282/chapter/5#27)), would probably work a lot like an underground test, with most or all of the bad crap contained. It couldn’t be “all”, and even “most” would cause plenty of “bad crap” to cause cancer, torture, and death for thousands and thousands, for years and years. That’s really, really horrible, evil, nightmare stuff. Further, this would be _starting a nuclear war_. It wouldn’t end here. Suddenly, nukes wouldn’t be so unacceptable to use – regimes around the world could see this as a green light to consider first strikes on their enemies (or at least make it a lot easier). Do you really, really think that this would be the end of it? Starting a nuclear war – and that’s what this would be doing, by definition – is monstrous. Even if, somehow, it didn’t spread into a larger exchange of nuclear weapons, it’d be monstrously evil due to the mass mutilation/cancer/torture/death thing. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/65 "2017-02-04T19:59:50Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > When the legislature in Chile called for the military to take power away from Allende in the 1970s, the military took power but didn’t give it back for 17 years. They just stayed in charge. I had that exact coup in mind when I wrote in my OP “They’re not even interested in a South-American style military junta.” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/66 "2017-02-04T20:01:38Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It couldn’t be “all”, and even “most” would cause plenty of “bad crap” to cause cancer, torture, and death for thousands and thousands, for years and years. That’s really, really horrible, evil, nightmare stuff. Why couldn’t it be “all”? Please show your work. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/67 "2017-02-04T20:03:15Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I had that exact coup in mind when I wrote in my OP “They’re not even interested in a South-American style military junta.” I know it is all theoretical, but when the military takes over what happens if the generals realize they can all become billionaires if they just keep power for themselves. Not all of them are going to give that power back, especially with the low ratings that congress is getting from the public and the disdain the general public feel for politicians. If we had good evidence that Trump wanted a first strike nuclear attack, and congress refused to remove him from power then I could see the benefit of a military coup. But other than that or him actually establishing an autocracy, I can’t really say its a good idea. I remember some liberals calling for a military coup under Bush, some conservatives calling for one under Obama, and now some liberals again calling for one under Trump. Bad precedent is being set. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/68 "2017-02-04T20:05:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Why couldn’t it be “all”? Please show your work. A combination of tribal knowledge (from my submarine experience) and Naval training – specifically the qualifications I obtained in nuclear radiological controls and contamination (several Navy classes). Perhaps there’s some feasible technology that could have a 100% perfectly contained nuclear blast launched from far away, but if so, I’m unaware of its existence (or even its feasibility). ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/69 "2017-02-04T20:06:35Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Bad precedent is being set. Agreed. The point of this whole thread was to judge the support for that sort of an action among Dopers. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/70 "2017-02-04T20:17:08Z")
In order to strike, SaDon would have to convince everyone that the strike was justified. The military, most of America, and really, the rest of the world. I suspect that he understands this. Basically, he has to _sell_ the idea. Which is what is troubling, because _that is what he does_. He is an expert at selling crap ideas. I would venture that he is already working on the pitch. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/71 "2017-02-04T20:24:21Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > When the legislature in Chile called for the military to take power away from Allende in the 1970s, the military took power but didn’t give it back for 17 years. They just stayed in charge. The finding of splendid, righteous, and noble justifications for actions of that sort is more common than not in human history; it’s something of a species specialty. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/72 "2017-02-04T20:31:06Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > If we had good evidence that Trump wanted a first strike nuclear attack … I could envision some scenarios where a nuclear first strike would be the recommended course of action. For example, if there was solid evidence that China was going to launch a nuclear strike against USA, and we could stop it or significantly limit the damage with our own preemptive nuclear strike. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/73 "2017-02-04T20:34:19Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I could envision some scenarios where a nuclear first strike would be the recommended course of action. For example, if there was solid evidence that China was going to launch a nuclear strike against USA, and we could stop it or significantly limit the damage with our own preemptive nuclear strike. It sounds as though you’re actually suggesting that it would be reasonable to believe any Trump Administration assurances that _‘there is solid evidence that \_\_\_\_\_\_ was going to launch a nuclear strike.’_ ---
**Author:** ![ultimate11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/49beb7/32.png) [@ultimate11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultimate11)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2017, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/74 "2017-02-04T23:44:16Z")
Let congress overthrow him at least. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/75 "2017-02-05T00:32:42Z")
Good god no! That’s one of the dumbest ideas I’ve heard yet. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/76 "2017-02-05T02:04:18Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > It sounds as though you’re actually suggesting that it would be reasonable to believe any Trump Administration assurances that _‘there is solid evidence that \_\_\_\_\_\_ was going to launch a nuclear strike.’_ If Mattis said it, i’d take it seriously. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/77 "2017-02-05T02:15:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Agreed. The point of this whole thread was to judge the support for that sort of an action among Dopers. And are the results about what you expected? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/78 "2017-02-05T02:19:12Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > And are the results about what you expected? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/79 "2017-02-05T02:49:46Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If Mattis said it, i’d take it seriously. Perhaps you need to be reminded of how he obtained his position. I mean, Rumsfeld was one to advocate the invasion of Iraq. Not sure that being appointed Sec-Def automatically instills good judgement. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2017, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874/80 "2017-02-05T04:30:03Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Perhaps you need to be reminded of how he obtained his position. I mean, Rumsfeld was one to advocate the invasion of Iraq. Not sure that being appointed Sec-Def automatically instills good judgement. It’s got nothing to do with the position and everything to do with the man. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-should-the-military-overthrow-trump/778874.md?page=5)