# Hypothetical: The conjoined twins. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [May 30, 2019, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-conjoined-twins/834788 "2019-05-30T18:26:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eyebrows_0f_doom/32/3119_2.png) [@Eyebrows\_0f\_Doom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eyebrows_0f_Doom)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-conjoined-twins/834788/21 "2019-06-01T15:21:42Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > This argument sounds awful familiar. And there’s the “gotcha” the OP claimed he wasn’t looking for. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-conjoined-twins/834788/22 "2019-06-01T19:32:04Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > If they’re speeding, Abby gets the ticket, since she controls the accelerator. Making an illegal left turn is on Brittany, since she does the steering. Since they can both reach/use the steering wheel I’m not sure the illegal turn thing is as clearcut as the speeding issue, since really only Abby can reach the accelerator. Does Brittany handle the brakes? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 1, 2019, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-conjoined-twins/834788/23 "2019-06-01T23:29:33Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Since they can both reach/use the steering wheel I’m not sure the illegal turn thing is as clearcut as the speeding issue, since really only Abby can reach the accelerator. Does Brittany handle the brakes? As I understand it, Brittany does all the steering, while Abby handles both the accelerator and the brake. Good thing they drive an automatic. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2019, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-conjoined-twins/834788/24 "2019-06-02T00:31:14Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > If Blake is lacking a fully formed brain and cannot function without Jake, and if Jake’s health and well being are being affected by Blake, it’s bye-bye Blake If Blake lacks a fully formed brain, how likely is it that he even has an opinion? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2019, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-conjoined-twins/834788/25 "2019-06-02T10:41:21Z")
There is a spectrum between “fully formed and fully functional” and “drooling vegetable”. Blake could have some sort of mental impairment and still be conscious and have opinions. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2019, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-conjoined-twins/834788/26 "2019-06-02T13:58:46Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > There is a spectrum between “fully formed and fully functional” and “drooling vegetable”. Blake could have some sort of mental impairment and still be conscious and have opinions. But if that’s the case, wouldn’t he have the same rights as anyone else? We don’t kill the severely mentally impaired. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 2, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-conjoined-twins/834788/27 "2019-06-02T22:57:16Z")
That’s how it should work, yes… ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-conjoined-twins/834788/28 "2019-06-03T07:39:41Z")
Your hypothetical doesn’t say why Jake wants to be separated. If it is just because Blake tells boring jokes, and Jake doesn’t want to hear them anymore, then I would find for Blake. If they agree that the two of them won’t work together, and each would rather die than stay together, I’d say let them flip a coin or otherwise work out who gets to live. If that happened and now Blake is backing down, I wouldn’t enforce that agreement, but Blake would be a bit of a dick to do so. If Blake’s heart doesn’t work, and Jake’s heart has to work harder to make up for it, , decreasing the quality and length of his life, or if Blake has no legs, so has to be carried, or even is just a head dangling from Jake’s shoulder, then that changes things a bit. They are not partners that have to work together, Blake is a parasite that is causing severe and continuing harm to Jake, and should be removed if that is Jake’s wish, and the only ethical question would be why the hell someone didn’t do this long ago before Blake had enough awareness to fear death. ---
**Author:** ![Riemann](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/riemann/32/3133_2.png) [@Riemann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Riemann)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-conjoined-twins/834788/29 "2019-06-03T08:14:29Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If they agree that the two of them won’t work together, and each would rather die than stay together, I’d say let them flip a coin or otherwise work out who gets to live. This may not fly. > [@](#): > > James Michael Shull is no longer a Virginia Judge, thanks to the decision of the Virginia Supreme Court that unanimously upheld his removal from the bench. > > Shull’s misconduct on the bench included ordering a woman to pull down her pants in open court during a hearing…Schull also decided child custody matters by tossing a coin in the air > **[(Former) Judge of the Day: James Michael Shull - Above the Law](https://abovethelaw.com/2007/11/former-judge-of-the-day-james-michael-shull/)** > > On some days, the posts just write themselves. From Blogonaut: James Michael Shull is no longer a Virginia Judge, thanks to the decision of the Virginia Supreme Court that unanimously upheld his removal from the bench. Shull’s misconduct on the bench... ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-conjoined-twins/834788/30 "2019-06-03T08:25:41Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If they agree that the two of them won’t work together, and each would rather die than stay together, I’d say let them flip a coin or otherwise work out who gets to live. Aside from the example \*\*Riemann \*\*gives who lives and who dies in twin separation surgery is dictated by anatomy, not human decision. Even where death does not result, which twin gets which bits is typically determined by which twin has better plumbing for the organ(s). ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-conjoined-twins/834788/31 "2019-06-03T13:49:11Z")
> [@Riemann](#): > > This may not fly. > > [(Former) Judge of the Day: James Michael Shull - Above the Law](https://abovethelaw.com/2007/11/former-judge-of-the-day-james-michael-shull/) The first charge against him is not relevant, and as for the second, I was not talking about a judge deciding the fate of another based on coin flip,but two people who mutually agreed to abide by the results of a coin flip. I also specifically said that I would not consider such an agreement to be legally biding and enforceable if one were to back out. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Aside from the example \*\*Riemann \*\*gives who lives and who dies in twin separation surgery is dictated by anatomy, not human decision. Even where death does not result, which twin gets which bits is typically determined by which twin has better plumbing for the organ(s). I was creating a hypothetical to examine the morality of the issue, not the medical consequences. It is true, however, that most (all?) of the time, that “coin flip” was already made by nature before they ever have a chance to. ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-conjoined-twins/834788/32 "2019-06-03T17:17:00Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > [It is still customary in the US to describe this as a groundbreaking success.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_and_Benjamin_Binder) > > The boys’ parents had been to hundreds of surgeons, all of whom refused to try the operation as it was extremely likely to kill one boy, and the other would not have a full brain when it was done. It seems to me that the ethical answer was clear, and the operation should never have been attempted. The doctor announced that the operation was a success but the patient died. ---
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [June 3, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-conjoined-twins/834788/33 "2019-06-03T17:30:41Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Koop also wrote about the case, but I read his account in hardcopy many years ago and can no longer locate it. It’s probably out there somewhere, I just haven’t been able to find it. I found it quite moving. Probably archived here somewhere: [About this Collection | C. Everett Koop - Profiles in Science](https://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/ps/retrieve/Collection/CID/QQ) ---
**Author:** ![The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@The\_wind\_of\_my\_soul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_wind_of_my_soul)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2019, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-conjoined-twins/834788/34 "2019-06-04T20:45:59Z")
> [@Filbert](#): > > Has there ever been a case when the twins were not babies though? The OP certainly implied that they were old enough to express an opinion, if not adult. All the separation cases I’ve heard of have been on babies due to parental choice, usually because both twins cannot survive, rather than choice of one of the twins. > > I’d guess that once they were adult, that’s past the point where surgery fatal to one twin would be considered. Ladan and Laleh Bijani were adult conjoined twins that wanted to be separated. Not an example of one twin wanting to be separated and the other not; however, it _is_ an example of adult conjoined twins wanting to be separated despite the risk to their lives. And, indeed, they died from the separation surgery. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-conjoined-twins/834788.md?page=1)