# Hypothetical: The Electoral College overturns election, says Clinton won **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 25, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973 "2016-11-25T17:01:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/61 "2016-11-28T01:03:58Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > In a situation where states with at least 270 EVs had ratified the compact, th more likely problem I see is whether the states voting the other way would honor it or renege, the next time the popular and electoral vote results differed. Because that’s exactly the effect of the compact: some states that gave a majority of their votes to the EC winner would have to select the popular vote winner’s slate of electors. I would expect some emergency meetings of the state legislatures in question. That’s why congressional approval should be pursued even if there are reasons to think it’s not necessary. An interstate compact approved by Congress is both a federal law and a binding contract, and state legislatures are explicitly prohibited from unilaterally voiding either. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/62 "2016-11-28T01:34:21Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > That’s why congressional approval should be pursued even if there are reasons to think it’s not necessary. An interstate compact approved by Congress is both a federal law and a binding contract, and state legislatures are explicitly prohibited from unilaterally voiding either. Good point. But just to play devil’s advocate, suppose the NPVIC was ratified with states with \>270 EVs, and it was approved by Congress as well, but the first time the popular and electoral majorities differed, a state with enough EVs to flip the result appointed a slate of electors that did just that. What would be the legal remedies in that case? Sure, they’d be doing something they’re prohibited from doing, but assuming the popular vote winner contested it, how would s/he do so, and how do you think it would play out? ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/63 "2016-11-28T02:12:53Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > It’s also more than a stretch to call the Electoral College doing that which is completely consistent with the Constitution as “a coup.” Not only has the phrase “constitutional coup” been thrown about before, this wouldn’t even be the first time Hillary Clinton has been involved - both the 2009 Honduras constitutional crisis and the 2012 Paraguay impeachment have been described as such, and happened while Clinton was Secretary of State. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/64 "2016-11-28T02:15:48Z")
> [@Curious2016](#): > > those are in fact the only eligibility requirements in the constitution. The constitution doesn’t say anything about having won the popular vote. If so, doesn’t that take all of the air out of the faithless elector campaign, which is hollering that Trump lacks “the requisite qualifications”? Trump doesn’t lack the requisite qualifications. The electors are under only tenuous obligation to vote for him, though. If they’re willing to face the penalties determined by their home states, if any, congress has no basis to object. Well, no _established_ basis. A situation like this hypothetical has the potential for a lot of hasty compromising, negotiation and improvisation, should it come to pass and of course I have little expectation that it will. ---
**Author:** ![Enderw24](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ba9def/32.png) [@Enderw24](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enderw24)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/65 "2016-11-29T20:33:17Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Because they have to certify the result. I don’t believe they do. 3: The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President… The certification happens at the state level amongst the Electors. There is no certification at the Federal level. Congress counts the votes up and the one who wins gets to be President. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2016, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/66 "2016-11-29T22:00:12Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > is everyone that has been briefed given an additional de-briefing? Is there anything in the rules to cover this situation? Yes every time you leave a position of trust you are debriefed ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/67 "2016-12-10T20:35:18Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I wasnt talking Russian propaganda. I was talking about the Russians actually tampering with the vote. Which is very unlikely. Not so unlikely after all: [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-orders-review-of-russian-hacking-during-presidential-campaign/2016/12/09/31d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c\_story.html?hpid=hp\_hp-top-table-main\_russiahack-745p%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm\_term=.211ef6bdfd2f](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-orders-review-of-russian-hacking-during-presidential-campaign/2016/12/09/31d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_russiahack-745p%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.211ef6bdfd2f) Yes, the Russians fixed the election. Explains why the polls and pundits were wrong. The EC must now vote in Clinton. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/68 "2016-12-10T21:17:44Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not so unlikely after all: > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-orders-review-of-russian-hacking-during-presidential-campaign/2016/12/09/31d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c\_story.html?hpid=hp\_hp-top-table-main\_russiahack-745p%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm\_term=.211ef6bdfd2f](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-orders-review-of-russian-hacking-during-presidential-campaign/2016/12/09/31d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_russiahack-745p%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.211ef6bdfd2f) > > Yes, the Russians fixed the election. Explains why the polls and pundits were wrong. The EC must now vote in Clinton. That’s not what that link says. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/69 "2016-12-10T21:26:33Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > That’s not what that link says. It says: > [@](#): > > The CIA has concluded in a secret assessment that Russia intervened in the 2016 election to help Donald Trump win the presidency… > > Intelligence agencies have identified individuals with connections to the Russian government who [are] part of a wider Russian operation to boost Trump and hurt Clinton’s chances. > > ‘It is the assessment of the intelligence community that Russia’s goal here was to favor one candidate over the other, to help Trump get elected…’ > > Agency briefers told the senators it was now “quite clear” that electing Trump was Russia’s goal… So, which part is inconsistent with the claim that Russia tampered with the election in order to help Trump win? ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/70 "2016-12-10T21:36:29Z")
Inconsistent? None of it. I didn’t say it was inconsistent with fixing, just that it doesn’t support it. Fixing the election and influencing it are not the same thing. He claimed the former and you are citing the latter. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/71 "2016-12-10T23:39:42Z")
Forget about doing away with or even modifying the Electoral College. Republicans will NEVER go along with changing a system that has allowed them to snatch electoral victory from the jaws of popular defeat in 2 out of the last 5 presidential elections. A revolution is more likely. (And, indeed, made marginally more likely by that posture.) ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/72 "2016-12-11T00:10:25Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > Inconsistent? None of it. I didn’t say it was inconsistent with fixing, just that it doesn’t support it. > > Fixing the election and influencing it are not the same thing. He claimed the former and you are citing the latter. Correct. “Did Russian hackers elect the U.S. president? Don’t believe the hype.” [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/11/24/did-russian-hackers-elect-the-u-s-president-dont-believe-the-hype/?utm\_term=.9c3ec58ec8b3](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/11/24/did-russian-hackers-elect-the-u-s-president-dont-believe-the-hype/?utm_term=.9c3ec58ec8b3) ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/73 "2016-12-11T00:39:55Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Correct. > > “Did Russian hackers elect the U.S. president? Don’t believe the hype.” > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/11/24/did-russian-hackers-elect-the-u-s-president-dont-believe-the-hype/?utm\_term=.9c3ec58ec8b3](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/11/24/did-russian-hackers-elect-the-u-s-president-dont-believe-the-hype/?utm_term=.9c3ec58ec8b3) _To date, squirrels have caused more attacks and deaths related to critical infrastructure than have cyberattacks. But the hysteria caused by the threat of cyber hacks and election violations has played a role in how Americans view this recent election._ Beware the squirrels ! There are billions of them ! And they are watching ! ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/74 "2016-12-11T00:59:51Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Forget about doing away with or even modifying the Electoral College. Republicans will NEVER go along with changing a system that has allowed them to snatch electoral victory from the jaws of popular defeat in 2 out of the last 5 presidential elections. > > A revolution is more likely. (And, indeed, made marginally more likely by that posture.) You’re telling me that the dope smoking, peace loving, 2nd and 10th amendment hating hippies are going to lead a revolution? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/75 "2016-12-11T01:06:38Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Not so unlikely after all: > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-orders-review-of-russian-hacking-during-presidential-campaign/2016/12/09/31d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c\_story.html?hpid=hp\_hp-top-table-main\_russiahack-745p%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm\_term=.211ef6bdfd2f](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/obama-orders-review-of-russian-hacking-during-presidential-campaign/2016/12/09/31d6b300-be2a-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_russiahack-745p%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.211ef6bdfd2f) > > Yes, the Russians fixed the election. Explains why the polls and pundits were wrong. The EC must now vote in Clinton. Fake news? Nothing in that link supports the idea that Russia tampered with “the vote”. Tried to influence the election? I’d shocked, SHOCKED to find out that Russia tries to influence\* our elections. \*Note the use of “influence” rather than “tamper with” as the latter implies a physical interference along the lines of changing actual votes. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/76 "2016-12-11T01:34:41Z")
I’m a hella lot angrier at the FBI director for influencing the election than I am at the Russians. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/77 "2016-12-11T02:02:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Fake news? Nothing in that link supports the idea that Russia tampered with “the vote”. Tried to influence the election? I’d shocked, SHOCKED to find out that Russia tries to influence\* our elections. > > \*Note the use of “influence” rather than “tamper with” as the latter implies a physical interference along the lines of changing actual votes. Thats the fucking Washington Post, not a fake news site, and Snopes and many others have covered it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![ultimate11](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/49beb7/32.png) [@ultimate11](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultimate11)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/78 "2016-12-11T02:09:01Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let’s skip over the arguments of what is or isn’t probable-this is a hypothetical situation. Enough of the Electoral College, for various reasons, has switched votes and the results are in: Hillary Clinton wins. What immediately happens next? Does Trump have any legal recourse? Are all secret briefings held so far still secret under penalty of…whatever and, if so, for how long a period of time? Does Trump immediately lose his Secret Service detail? California is happy, and the urban citizens celebrate. Rural citizens feel deceived, however, and will begin mild or moderate protests nearby cities, albeit not as bad as the November 8th Election. Trump complains and Clinton has a conference praising the electors or something. Liberal media outlets praise the decision, conservative media outlets get agitated. Not sure about civil war, but it’s really an internal cold war in America. Regardless, Trump wouldn’t be worried long-term, since congress will overrule the College’s decision, and it’s November 8th again. Perhaps a bit more aggressive since the decision is final. For security details, Trump would still have it because the agencies know Clinton is still not going in the white house. Not with congress making the final decision. And secret briefings? I have no clue. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/79 "2016-12-11T03:58:13Z")
Octopus wrote: “You’re telling me that the dope smoking, peace loving, 2nd and 10th amendment hating hippies are going to lead a revolution?” They won’t be the ones leading it. And I kind of think that Vaclav Havel would have met your criteria. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973/80 "2016-12-11T04:50:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Thats the fucking Washington Post, not a fake news site, and Snopes and many others have covered it. :rolleyes: Your post was the fake news because your cite doesn’t support what you wrote. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/hypothetical-the-electoral-college-overturns-election-says-clinton-won/772973.md?page=5)